Boxer On eSports’ Past and Future

[Nicol Bolas]

Nicol theres a difference between the other team seeing your plays during the game and seeing your playbook.

In the sense that plays you don't run they don't get to see, yes these are the same. Much like strategies that you don't use can't be stolen by replays of live games.

However, once you execute a play, everyone gets to see how you did it.

Part of Starcrafts fundamental gameplay features components not seen in Chess or Football. One crucial concept is fog of war. In football, you are suppose to be able to see your opponent at all times, and certainly in chess. In starcraft, you are not.

That only matters during the game. This is analogous to not knowing what play the other team is going to run.

[Santrega]

Nicol theres a difference between the other team seeing your plays during the game and seeing your playbook.

Are you trying to say in the replays we can see the player's brain, or thoughts? As far as I know, we dont actually see any playbook... as its all in that persons head.

In football you see tendencies and formations, and what those formations usually mean. It's no different than build orders, and how a player usually reacts to certain things.

Watching replays will not hurt the sport. This is no different than the argument against MBS (Lowering the skill ceiling). Pro players do not want more competition... Considering this is how they live and make money, most people can understand it.

However, since most sports allow you to watch the replay of a game to learn from your mistakes, and watch video of the competition to see how he plays... and it hasnt ruined those sports... I think this is a non-issue.

[ArcherofAiur]

Your taking the analogy literally and therefore missing the point.

[Nicol Bolas]

Your taking the analogy literally and therefore missing the point.

Or you know, your analogy doesn't work.

Since either everyone failed to understand your analogy, or you failed to provide an analogy that illustrates your point, why don't you just say what you point is?

[newcomplex]

Or you know, your analogy doesn't work.

Since either everyone failed to understand your analogy, or you failed to provide an analogy that illustrates your point, why don't you just say what you point is?

His point was a confusing way of saying that viewing data that is analogous to private data (replays), gives a much greater advantage then viewing data that is meant to be data shown on the networks (vods).

It really made no sense in comparison to football, but hey, whatever. The point is more or less true.

[Draco]

Blizzard wants us to do our best to discover the ultimate strategy to always win. Censoring replays impedes on that goal.

[Nicol Bolas]

His point was a confusing way of saying that viewing data that is analogous to private data (replays), gives a much greater advantage then viewing data that is meant to be data shown on the networks (vods).

This isn't about what's shown to the audience. In a football game, the coaches aren't looking (just) at televised footage; they have a guy up in a booth looking at each play as it unfolds.

What is being suggested here is the ability to say that there is no replay of the match. Not for you or your opponent. It basically denies your opponent the ability to watch even themselves play the game, and it inhibits their ability to see where they made a mistake and improve.

Once the replay file exists, it and the particular strategies within it are destined to come out. You might try to employ some DRM scheme that prevents other copies of SC2 from reading it, but DRM is broken as fast as people want it to be (doubly so if there's money involved).

Secrets don't work in sports. If you have a secret strategy, that secret will last up until your very first use of it. At which point, like the game you used it in, it becomes public knowledge. This has yet to manifest itself as a problem to any other sport. Even to other game sports like Chess and Go.

So why is Boxer bitching about this something every other sport lives with just fine? Maybe there's something wrong with SC2 as a sport. Or maybe it's because he's not as creative and brilliant as he or everyone else thinks he is. Or maybe something else.

[Islandsnake]

Even if they censored replays people would still use video recording software and do audio commentarys with popular strats.... and record streams of pro games and do the same thing.

So its better to put everyone on the same level anyway, besides the average joe really doesn't look up strats and if they do they don't even know how to do them correctly anyway

Korean Pros will have entire teams to plan out there stuff with, which is a big advantage over people just trying to play alone replays help bridge that gap.

Plus replays rule

[DemolitionSquid]

I think the problem is that you guys are comparing strategies in SC to strategies in football and chess. The games are nothing alike.

In chess, each type of unit has different movement patterns. But each unit is equally effective against every other unit; every unit can take out every other unit so there is much more room for strategy.

In football, you've added a million variations on position and power of every unit. No two games between the same two teams with the same units (players) will unfold the same way, because humans actually gain and lose power.

In SC, every unit is set in its power. In SC, some units are better at certain things than others. Marine vs Hellion is not equal to Pawn vs Rook. The number of effective permutations in SC is significantly lower than in chess, and the fixed nature of units power lends to less variation in play than football.

[ArcherofAiur]

This isn't about what's shown to the audience. In a football game, the coaches aren't looking (just) at televised footage; they have a guy up in a booth looking at each play as it unfolds.

What is being suggested here is the ability to say that there is no replay of the match.

Thats not what I proposed though it certainly is an option. I think the middle ground is to let the top two ladder levels have the ability to block the opponent from seeing their FPVODs. Opponents would still be able to view the replay from their own perspective.

As others have said the player can always just record the game with third party equipment. What you can block is the FPVOD of the player who doesnt want their info shared. The opponent would have to figure it out from what he saw in the match.