Mutalisks legacy

[Perfecttear]

There has been some debates regarding the usefulness of the Mutalisk and it's role in sc2, so i decided to make a thread dedicated to the Mutalisk.
And i have some hypothetical question i would like to ask you?
So bare with me



I would like to start by asking a simple question, would the mutalisk still be such a good unit if it could not be massed, for example if it would not be a zerg unit?
Imagine if the mutalisk would be a protoss unit for example, an energy figther with a lightning attack, with the same splash damage and same stats. One of the results would be that it would be slighter later awaible in game, than by the zerg and that you probaly wouldn't be able to mass them in such number, due to lower number of resources avaible and longer build times- build limitations. So do you think that a later tier air unit with only 3 range low damage and medium to low hp would be usefull in lower numbers?

I say no, if that would be the case the unit would probaly suck even more than the scout. But for those of you who might say that this is unimportant, since each unit is build for each race and it's play style, let's move to part 2

Basicly what i was saying is, that the mutalisk in only good becasuse it can be massed in numbers and stacked, it's stats are actualy weak. People like the mutalisk, because it's their only option to build, it's the only unit that they ever used, so they think it's a great unit, since they cannot compare it to any other unit. I agrre that the unit is ok , but it think that the unit could be hugely improved.



Let's look at the mutalisk game roles, harass and sniping of priority targets. Looking at those, and it's stats the unit is actually not suited for the job, its really low attack range makes it a real chalenge to make hit and runs at an enemy economy, and it's low splash damage makes it inefective and time consuming at killing or sniping priority tartgets. As i look at it, the unit is actualy very weak, and is only considered good, due to a game engine flaw called stacking

Even though looking at its poor stats, people still managed to get the very best of that unit in sc1 with some of the best micro in the game, and used the unit to it's fullest. Peple adapted, they used what was given to them, "you have to work with what you get". Now.... imagine if the zerg would actually get a unit far superior that the mutalisk and more suited for its game roles.->

Let's say that the zerg would get a unit far more suited for harasing and sniping. Imagine if the zerg would have an air unit with 6 range instead of the lously 3, and an single stronger attack, instead of a weak splash one.
IMo the unit would be fair superior to the mutalisk, and a real blessing to the zerg

Example:
cost : 100 minerals , 100 gas
hp : 110
damage: 14 (no splash)
attack range : 6 ATG , 3 ATA

Another thing i'm wondering, do the zerg still need an air unit in sc2, equally good vs both air and ground targets, now when they also have the corruptor?


So the conclusion, basicly i'm saying that the mutalisk isn't such a good unit as many people portrait it. It has many flaws and weaknesses, and if the unit could not be massed and stacked it would infact be one of the worst units in sc.
So with that, i'm asking you, what do you think is the reason they kept the mutalisk in sc2? And do you think that the unit could be replaced by a far more bether and more interesting unit, more suited for the zergs playstyle.
I think that zerg could realy use a new unit, a fresh concept, or a redesign of some of the old ones, since they feel realy dull, and hardly improved coming from sc1, if you compare them to the protoss and the terran.

Thank you

[Triceron]

Lemme get this straight

You're saying

A: Mutas, on an individual level, aren't that great
B: Mutas depend on massing to be good

Therefore, why keep the muta because it's not that great on an individual level, and there could be a better replacement for Zerg.

Zerg ARE about massing, so Mutas fit the Zerg playstyle perfectly.

[Nicol Bolas]

Basicly what i was saying is, that the mutalisk in only good becasuse it can be massed in numbers and stacked

Stacking is not necessary for Mutalisks to be dangerous. Massing is. And nobody's losing any sleep over a single Zergling either. It's 50 Zerglings that are the stuff of nightmares.

it's low splash damage makes it inefective and time consuming at killing or sniping priority tartgets.

Not really. Priority targets for sniping tend to be low Hp anyway. High Templar, Ghosts, etc.

do the zerg still need an air unit in sc2, equally good vs both air and ground targets, now when they also have the corruptor?

Yes. Because Corruptors can only attack air. They are best used as augments to an existing Mutalisk fleet. The Corruption mechanic only requires that a Corruptor "recently" hit a unit, not that only Corruptors damaged it. So a Corruptor can spread it's corruption to a unit, and have Mutalisks deal the final blow.

When the air battle is won, a Corruptor only fleet is useless. A mixed Corruptor/Mutalisk force is able to actually do something.

Furthermore, taking away their AoE means that now there's no combo with the Overseer's acid spores.

[DemolitionSquid]

Mmmm... mass effect.

[ArcherofAiur]

Id also like to point out that I predicted this

We are complaining without any real idea of how the roach works in Starcraft 2. But dont worry, next month is "The Mutalisk Problem".

[The_Blade]

Lemme get this straight

You're saying

A: Mutas, on an individual level, aren't that great
B: Mutas depend on massing to be good

Therefore, why keep the muta because it's not that great on an individual level, and there could be a better replacement for Zerg.

Zerg ARE about massing, so Mutas fit the Zerg playstyle perfectly.

Gameplay: The problem is that it is much harder to mass in StarCraft 2 and it is hard to keep stacked.

Just lets say that this is StarCraft 2 not StarCraft. Currently the lair build is a little slower as hatcheries are a little higher in priority. Then goes their common enemies, marines and stalkers. This too units are way too common in StarCraft two as infantry increased in the terrans and the stalker is like a dragoon.

[Perfecttear]

I'm just trying to see if anybody thinks, that there is an posibility to replace the mutalisk with a new bether unit, that could also be massed in numbers.
So i was trying to say that the mutalisk is not the perfect unit, as some portrait it, and is in fact replacable.

Just an another question, what if the mutalisk would be replaced by a unit that would be slightly more specialized against ground targets than air ( be that with damage or range benefit), compared to the mutalisk?
I mean it's not like this is sc1, now we actually have the corruptor

[DemolitionSquid]

A unit more specialized against ground than air?

You mean like the Brood Lord?

[Perfecttear]

Does nobody see that the mutalisk, will not be so effective as in sc1. I mean just one of the reason is the new damage system. The mutalisks now receives full damage from units, that it received only half in sc1. Air defence has evolved quite a lot in sc2 and is more potent compared to sc1, just look at the new turret and the new antiair units and spells. So is there really a need for this outdated design- the mutalisk?

[DemolitionSquid]

I mean just one of the reason is the new damage system. The mutalisks now receives full damage from units, that it received only half in sc1.

Such as?

Air defence has evolved quite a lot in sc2 and is more potent compared to sc1, just look at the new turret and the new atg units and spells.

SC1 Missile Turret
20e

SC2 Missile Turret
7(x2) + 7 vs armored

SC2 Missile Turrets do 4 more damage to Mutalisks than SC1.

So is there really a need for this outdated design - the mutalisk?

How exactly is the design outdated? Stats can be changed, and have been.

The only problem with the Mutas design is that they cannot stack as well now. But that's not a problem with the Muta, its a problem with a glitch, an error, in SC1 that people expect to work in SC2.