An Interesting Solution to the Hydralisk Problem.

[SCdude]

Im not sure i agree with this generalist/specialist talk. At least i wouldn't say that it only applies to Zerg.

Wouldn't you say that Protoss, for example, also have their generalists, being the Zealot and Dragoon? In which case blizzard successfully changed one of the SC1 generalist-relationships by removing the Dragoon and replacing it with the stalker and immortal. If they managed to do just that, then what keeps them from changing the dynamics between the zergling, hydralisk and mutalisk?

[Eligor]

Not really. We've got another thread stating that the Roach should do acid spore damage, which would make it an effective tank.

Of course not necessarily a straightforward damage attack, but something that forces the enemy to engage the roach to his own detriment.

[Nicol Bolas]

The thing is, I always considered fighter AtA and dedicated GtA to be separate roles.

You might also notice that there's no dedicated GtA unit in SC2. Even the Thor, which some people like to call GtA, has many purposes other than just shooting at air units.

In which case blizzard successfully changed one of the SC1 generalist-relationships by removing the Dragoon and replacing it with the stalker and immortal.

Except they didn't. The Stalker is a modified version of the Dragoon. It shares most of its stats with the Dragoon; the only major difference is Blink. The Stalker is an improved Dragoon, one that has more capabilities, not a different unit. The relationship between the Zealot and the Dragoon is essentially the same.

The Immortal is a unit that the Protoss haven't had before. It patches a hole in the general Protoss arsenal.

[DemolitionSquid]

There is no Hydralisk problem.

The problem is an infestation of these:



They serve no purpose.

[Eligor]

As I've said, the Roach needs something that would force the enemy to actively engage them, they have to be a threat in some (relatively narrow, but still significant) way.

[n00bonicPlague]

The Immortal is a unit that the Protoss haven't had before. It patches a hole in the general Protoss arsenal.

I wouldn't say they haven't had it before — just that they had it in a different way. To me the Immortal is a splice between the Dragoon and the anti-armor capabilities of the Reaver, while the anti-mass capabilities of the Reaver were given to the Colossus. However, I do agree that the Stalker is a "lighter" more flexible version of the Dragoon.

[Josue]

There is no Hydralisk problem.

The problem is an infestation of these:



They serve no purpose.

Well, I think improvements must be done for both Hydralisk and roach.
Of course roach is the headache here and I agree with you in that they need something to be truly useful. Perhaps if they're supposed to be a tank unit their range should be decreased in such a way it doesn't interfere with zerglings, but is still too short compared to Hydralisk. I think the Hydralisk need to get a little something to spice them up since they haven't changed too much from their SC1 incarnation, the only cool thing added was the animation change when a ground unit is at melee range (which is quite good since it finally makes use of hydras' scythes).

As I've said, the Roach needs something that would force the enemy to actively engage them, they have to be a threat in some (relatively narrow, but still significant) way.

if you ask me, forcing your foes to focus fire on roaches since
1.-they regenerate quite fast
2.-they have some kind of bonus with their damage (i.e. those mentioned acid spores)
3.-they block the way
sounds interesting.
EDIT
now about Hydralisk, what about giving it a bonus damage? something like (besides of improving that attack animation for one that looks more like thousands of green spines with green goo like in SC1)
adding a debuff effect named corrosive spines that reduces target's armor or something like that?

[Perfecttear]

Was it really necesary to ridicule me in the op post?
That is how it is spelled in my launguage, i forgot to translate to english

As for the topic, i still think that the Hydra should be put back to tier 2, and it's stats changed .And the roach back to tier 1.
Amongst other things that i alredy explained why, this would solve the spawn larva Hydralisk rush, if nothing other

[FarbrorAbavna]

Disclaimer: 1st and 3rd paragraph seems to be almost the same but as always it's in the details. Hydra, according to the sc2 wiki, has GTG 8 (+4 vs armored) and GTA 8 (+4 vs armored). Nowhere do I suggest altering the GTA damage.

You could give the hydralisk an upgrade that makes it so it's GTA attack is only GTA and it's GTG is a melee attack(as proposed by Eligor), and here's my proposal: but the GTG attack grows stronger. Obviously it would have to be only so strong that it doesnt overlap the roach and makes it even less useful. Im thinking something like 10 (+4 vs armored) for the hydra. The roach as of now has ground attack 11 (+3 vs light), according to the sc2 wiki, which makes the hydras attack damage awful close to the roach but that could be fixed by either giving the hydra 9(+5 vs armored) or increase the roaches attack to 12(+3 light) from the start. Might make the bonus against armored even greater for the hydra to really give it that edge that makes you wanna go melee with it, and perhaps lose the ranged attack against ground. Actual numbers being sorted out in the beta of course.

The lore would be something like the hydra getting stronger, i.e. bigger muscles that get in the way for it's sacks(that shoot the spines), hence why it cant aim its ranged attack at ground targets any more.
Problem is it already has the "muscle augments"(movement speed) upgrade though so you get a clash of names, so perhaps put this in with the speed upgrade or call the increased attack damage upgrade something else(preferred choice imho since it doesnt force you to go speed and forsake the ranged GTG).

Biggest problem with this ability is that you now only have one ranged attacker on the ground, the roach, which makes it that more important(a positive or negative thing, in that it naturally opens up options for increasing the roachs hp or attack, is debatable). So another alternative is to just increase the hydras GTG attack damage through this upgrade, but keep its ranged damage the same and also the ability to attack GTG, and increase GTG enough to wanna go melee with hydras. Still needing the increased attack damage for the roach though since a +1 or +2 to the hydras attack probably wont suffice in making you wanna go melee with them(although more than +2 would just be imba, imho) otherwise again youre awful close to the roaches attack damage. Perhaps something like GTG 10(+6/5 vs armored).

This is the quick and dirty solution, although could be seen as an evolution since hydra now is that much stronger against ground, and imo something more interesting would be a new ability like the acid spines. But hey whatever works the best

Edit: Sorry for the wall of text, again. Gonna work on that

[electricmole]

@nicol bass.

stalker is a NEW unit, new name, new role, new mechanics, new attack, new model, new feel, and apparently made as a new unit lorewise. How can it be a dragoon, when they will being seeing each other in the campaign as different unit.