¡¡Save a Zerg breed!!

[Quirel]

I meant the fact that one of the ST's quotes is literally "Transform and roll out."

Ah. Huh.
I'm positive I heard that quote in the Terran Unveil, used by a Viking group. And then I heard that it was a quote from Transformers. Which led to me associating it with the new "Hasbro Toys" Terran units.

I didn't play the original with sound unless it was campaign or I was playing Zerg (and entering the "Radio Free Zerg" cheat) so I forgot that it had that quote.

No, it wouldn't. Because it would have been an active ability, which (except for burrow and dedicated spellcasters) is forbidden on Zerg units.

The way I saw it, it was an update of the old Devourer<-Mutalisk->Guardian. A unit would get radically different stats and a role, but would be able to transfer back to that role when the situation demands it.

See, this is why everyone is so upset that the Zerg "aren't new". Because nobody understood the rules for Zerg units. They just figure you can call anything a Zerg unit. Nobody except the developers seems to understand that there are specific rules Zerg units have to follow in order to be Zerg units.

Nobody except the developers and you, you mean.

I'd say that more CENTRAL pillars of the Zerg are that
1)They're massable and quick.
2)They have generalists and specialists, with nothing in between.
3)They can rapidly switch from one army setup to another.

[AegisKHAOS]

marines makes more sense they have guns.

Downing a BC with guns makes as much sense as tossing stones with sling shots. It makes no difference whatsoever; it still makes no sense.

In sci-fi mechs are normal and can pwnd any of your preffered ground vehicles.

Which is still no excuse for the fact that mechas as war machines make no sense at all.

And if anyone can come up with a better idea for hydralisks and mutalisks beyond a facelift that would still work for the Zerg, I'm all ears.

[Nicol Bolas]

Nobody except the developers and you, you mean.

I assumed that was implied, since you know, I made the post.

A unit would get radically different stats and a role, but would be able to transfer back to that role when the situation demands it.

And the "transfer back" part is what makes it an active ability rather than unit production (which is what unit mutation currently is).

Which is still no excuse for the fact that mechas as war machines make no sense at all.

Actually, it is. It's called the "Rule of Cool". That is, you can get away with anything in fiction if it's sufficiently cool. Mechs are cool, a lot cooler than a dull, boring tank. So you can get away with having them fight.

[Perfecttear]

I'm just wondering, why do the zerg units have almost no active abilities, compared to the protoss or the terran?

For example an antiair only ability might work well with the hydra and it's role, or even an ability that would include it's melle animation in some way, for example.

And if active abilities are "forbiden", how about pasive?

[AegisKHAOS]

Actually, it is. It's called the "Rule of Cool". That is, you can get away with anything in fiction if it's sufficiently cool. Mechs are cool, a lot cooler than a dull, boring tank. So you can get away with having them fight.

And again, "Rule of Cool" still doesn't stop the fact that giant bipedal mechas don't make sense. Point being is that giant mechs or shooting down massive starships with the equivalent of pellet guns is no better than hydras shooting anything with spines, so talking about 'things that make sense' in terms of a game in a sci-fi setting is rather irrelevant. In that case, this is simply all about what look cool to the eyes, and if that's the only reason for replacing units like the hydralisk or mutalisk, then that's not a good enough reason. I think we can both agree on that.

[Nicol Bolas]

I'm just wondering, why do the zerg units have almost no active abilities, compared to the protoss or the terran?

For the same reason that almost all Terran units have active abilities, and that Protoss units have high Hp, and every other racial trait that exists. It differentiates the races and ensures that there is uniqueness to the play-style of each race.

[DemolitionSquid]

No, it wouldn't. Because it would have been an active ability, which (except for burrow and dedicated spellcasters) is forbidden on Zerg units.

See, this is why everyone is so upset that the Zerg "aren't new". Because nobody understood the rules for Zerg units. They just figure you can call anything a Zerg unit. Nobody except the developers seems to understand that there are specific rules Zerg units have to follow in order to be Zerg units.

Ok, Nicol's officially lost his crackers. Admitting one to New Folsam's Psych Ward.

[Perfecttear]

Ok, Nicol's officially lost his crackers. Admitting one to New Folsam's Psych Ward.

I agree, i would understand if he would say that active abilities are not so popular or relevant to the zerg, but "forbiden", come on that's just ridiculous.
And to think i actualy used to respect his debating skills

[DemolitionSquid]

Indeed.

Zerg don't have active abilities because they usually die to fast to use them. Zerg strength lies in large numbers of weak units. Protoss have a lot of active abilities because each unit can survive long enough to make good use of them.

It's for this reason that the balance in DoW2 has failed. The Tyranids work fine, they have few active abilities and just swarm. But the Eldar are as (if not more) fragile, and are loaded with spells they just can't survive long enough to use.

Zerg can have active spells. There is no rule they can't, its just not as practical to their playstyle.

[Quirel]

marines makes more sense they have guns. Hydralisk may sprain their necks doing it.

Sprain their necks? When Hydralisks are essentially long ropes of bone and muscle?

Let me explain what I was saying. Ten Marines shooting down a Battlecruiser is like ten soldiers trying to gun down a battleship anchored five miles offshore with assault rifles. To be fair, let's give them AKUs.
It doesn't matter how many bullets they fire, because that destroyer has 6" steel plating on the sides. And they won't be firing for long, because...

You do know its because of gameplay reason why the hydralisk is the zerg gta attack unit no matter how it looks or feel lorewise and you dont give a damn about it, admit it.

Lorewise, the Hydralisk is shooting finger-long grooved spines (Fin stabilized, essentially) tipped with acid, fast enough to pierce two centimeters of neosteel.

And lorewise, there would be hundreds of them firing at the same time. And lorewise, they'd be attacking low-flying aircraft, leaving Battlecruisers and high-flying Wraiths to Scourges and Devourers.

Also marines role is not primarily against air units unlike the is hydralisk being pictured.

In sci-fi mechs are normal and can pwnd any of your preffered ground vehicles.

Right. In Sci-Fi, which is what StarCraft is. Which means that a Hydralisk can shoot down air units.

Mechs are the antithesis of common sense. Any development that would make them practical (or even possible) would only make tanks MORE effective against them.
Magical Gundanium armor, light as a feather and cannot be penetrated by normal means? Put it on a tank, and NO MECH would be able to kill it.
Recoilless guns that can rip apart skyscrapers and other mechs? Tanks would be able to mount larger ones.
Servos strong enough to swing limbs around and allow the mech to pull off ninja moves? Put the motor on a tank, and it will be able to turn it's turret, target, and fire at any angle in less than a second.

Common sense dictates that mechs would be completely useless in a war zone, but Rule of Cool lets them in. Common sense dictates that the Hydralisk would be unable to shoot down a battlecruiser, but Rule of Cool says they can shoot down a lot of other things in the air.

Actually, it is. It's called the "Rule of Cool". That is, you can get away with anything in fiction if it's sufficiently cool. Mechs are cool, a lot cooler than a dull, boring tank. So you can get away with having them fight.

>.>
Says you.
Personally, I find tanks (Scorpion, Arclite, HK-Ground) to be MUCH more interesting than mechs (Gundam, Viking, Transformers)

While I agree that the Rule of Cool lets them fight, like Rule of Cool allows Hydralisks to shoot down Wraiths and such. But common sense, what electricmole was applying to the Hydralisk would disqualify all mechs in the game, as well as the Crucio Siege Tank and the Hellion.

I agree, i would understand if he would say that active abilities are not so popular or relevant to the zerg, but "forbiden", come on that's just ridiculous.
And to think i actualy used to respect his debating skills

I still respect his debating skills.

I just don't agree with him on this one point.

AK-47s might work but hydralisk looks dumb shooting at air units, the zerg could have just made a ground guardian that shoots greens bombs against air units which would look more fitting and make sense. Blizzard can't think of anything better at the moment since they want to keep the iconic zerg hydralisk for you.

Lorewise, the Hydralisk is shooting spines as big as an AK-47 bullet WITH THE CASING at a faster velocity. If anything, it would be MORE effective than an AK-47.