I think the Lurker should be scrapped...

[B~E]

" Just make the unit available at T2, and the siege range upgrade at T3, or allow individual Lurkers to evolve to siege range, with a slightly different model."

[MattII]

" Just make the unit available at T2, and the siege range upgrade at T3, or allow individual Lurkers to evolve to siege range, with a slightly different model."

Amazing. We already only have 3 units at tier 3, and now you're suggesting moving one up to tier 2, a place where we already have 5 new units?

[Crazy_Jonny]

Except all SC2 Ground based siege units do splash (Siege Tank, Colossus, Lurker... even Thor air)

Its not that I have a problem with it's splash, but the splash in addition to its armor bonus can be devastating. At least with a siege tank, it fires at units in a small radius, make its splash only truly effective against small bio units. Its armor bonus kicks into play with not small units. Using the Colossus is a bad example because its good against light/bio units, not armored units.

But the lurker has a HUGE splash radius. Those things would rape stalkers, hellions, vikings - those kind of units so badly.

Honestly, I can't say right now this would be OP, because I haven't played the game, but I am guessing it would be hard to balance. Also, I think the units I just mentioned can be taken out more easily by zerglings.

Again, this argument is fueled more by the fact that I just think the zerg need more new units, and I think the Lurker is currently the weakest link in returning units. I might not mind it as much if there was something new to it. It falls into the same spot the Carrier is in for me. Its nice they bring it back but I dont see the benefit.

[Nicol Bolas]

But the lurker has a HUGE splash radius. Those things would rape stalkers, hellions, vikings - those kind of units so badly.

It's also Tier 3. A Tier 3 unit should have a huge impact on the game, slaughtering Tier 1&2 units by the dozens.

[n00bonicPlague]

I like the Lurker at T3. I always felt that it could've used a major boost from BW.

If I gave it an ability, it would be cliff climbing.

Anybody have a nice high quality shot of the current Lurker model?

[Crazy_Jonny]

I don't like the Lurker at tier 3 because if I'm going for a tier 3 gtg unit, its Ultralisks. Think about it, 600 hp, cleave splash damage, headbutting, it can burrow now, the thing is a freakin beast. I can see the Lurker making it into the game, but it won't get used, like, ever.

[B~E]

Amazing. We already only have 3 units at tier 3, and now you're suggesting moving one up to tier 2, a place where we already have 5 new units?

Whats the worst problem? balance issues caused by messing with a niche unit like the lurker? or not enough units at tier 3?

However, I dont honestly see a problem with a tier-3 lurker in itself. My only problem with the Zerg is the lack of game-ending strategies available at tier-2.

Bringing the lurker at tier-2 is a suggestion to fix that, but I'd rather boost the Infestor, give new abilities to the changeling and make the nydus worm even more practical.

[MattII]

Whats the worst problem? balance issues caused by messing with a niche unit like the lurker? or not enough units at tier 3?

Not enough units at tier 3.

However, I dont honestly see a problem with a tier-3 lurker in itself. My only problem with the Zerg is the lack of game-ending strategies available at tier-2.

So what about swapping the Baneling with the Roach then?

Bringing the lurker at tier-2 is a suggestion to fix that, but I'd rather boost the Infestor, give new abilities to the changeling and make the nydus worm even more practical.

Well I had thought about splitting the Infestor's abilities over 2 tiers, ie, it comes with Fungal Growth, and can immediately research Spawn Infested Terrans, but has to wait till tier 3 before it can get Burrowed Movement and Neural Infestation. As for the Nydus Worm, what if it were to get an option to retract, which would get back the Worm (or 100 gas and a % of the minerals) and allow you to respawn it elsewhere?

[Krikkitone]

Not enough units at tier 3.



So what about swapping the Baneling with the Roach then?



Well I had thought about splitting the Infestor's abilities over 2 tiers, ie, it comes with Fungal Growth, and can immediately research Spawn Infested Terrans, but has to wait till tier 3 before it can get Burrowed Movement and Neural Infestation. As for the Nydus Worm, what if it were to get an option to retract, which would get back the Worm (or 100 gas and a % of the minerals) and allow you to respawn it elsewhere?

Actually Letting the worm "redeploy" ie move to a new location for 0 or reduced cost (possibly greater time) than if you built a new one from the network would make it more of a Nydus worm, and less of a canal

If multiple Nydus worms could unload simultaneously, that would make them more lke Transports
It might also justify more use of them in 'drops'.. ie the Overlord drops the Creep, and Several Nydus worms appear in it.. for a more rapid take over.

[Nicol Bolas]

So what about swapping the Baneling with the Roach then?

Are Banelings, even Tier 2 Banelings, ever going to be a game-ending strategy? We are talking about a uni that is designed to blow itself up. They can certainly turn the tide of battle and be the difference maker. But I don't think they can be a real game ender.

If multiple Nydus worms could unload simultaneously, that would make them more lke Transports

They already can.

Well I had thought about splitting the Infestor's abilities over 2 tiers, ie, it comes with Fungal Growth, and can immediately research Spawn Infested Terrans, but has to wait till tier 3 before it can get Burrowed Movement and Neural Infestation.

Despite the fact that there are only 3 Tier 3 Zerg units, Tier 3 is not where the Zerg need help. At Tier 3, between BroodLords, Lurkers with massive range, and fricken Ultralisks with AoE and stupid levels of Hp, Zerg Tier 3 is looking damn strong.

It's Tier 2 where the Zerg need help. And personally, I think the Infestor and Nydus Worms are doing their part. The weak links really are Roaches and "Mutalisks" (in quotes because they may be just fine, particularly when used with Overseer's acid spores).

If the Roach needs to be replaced with a new unit with new mechanics, I say make something like my old Hunter-Killer design. A super-Hydralisk that has strong early damage output, but after the initial volley, has less damage.