Zerg Revamped

[Triceron]

Are roaches really tanks though? They still take quite a bit of damage, and with the right amount of focus fire they go down just as fast as any other unit. They don't really have great mitigation, do they?

[Nicol Bolas]

I just feel that by the time you reach good units for the zerg like lurkers and ultralisk the terran are already killing everything.

Which is where your problem lies. You discount Roaches, Mutalisks, Corruptors, Overlord dropping, Nydus, Infestors, and Overseers as not being "good units".

We've seen Infestors put to good use in precisely one game. For just about everything else, we've seen precious little if anything.

David Kim has even lost his first match as zerg.

Yep, you're right. David Kim has never lost a match before this. And he always loses matches as Zerg. Therefore, the gameplay balance designer has never played Zerg before.

I think main units for toss are zealots and stalkers for terran its marines thors and maroders.., Zerg have no front line soldiers..

God forbid that the Zerg would be unable to just mass up a single unit and A-move it. It'd be terrible if a Zerg player had to think, be creative, or use proper unit combinations. No, we can't have any of that; it's not like the Zerg as a race don't have particular tools to change the combination of their army faster than any other race.

Of course the Zerg should just be able to build Hydras and win.

They don't really have great mitigation, do they?

Tanking is all about relative cost. If a unit is cheap enough compared to other units, it can be a Tank. What matters for the Roach is that its price per Hp is significantly lower than any other Zerg units of that era. The fact that they have regen helps increase its price per Hp by giving it more effective Hp.

[DemolitionSquid]

Are roaches really tanks though? They still take quite a bit of damage, and with the right amount of focus fire they go down just as fast as any other unit. They don't really have great mitigation, do they?

A unit with high regen is best used to push tank. Not in the sense of absorbing a lot of damage like the Ultralisk, but in the way it can recover from a battle quickly and thus get into the next fray quickly. This promotes the burrow micro.

Right now, Roaches start with ~15 regen per sec, enough to negate damage from a few marines. Their upgrade hits that up to 25 regen. Being armored, they theoretically are best used against low tier, low damage but high RoF units.

This is negated in TvZ though, because of the Marauder, which absolutely pummels Roaches.

[Braylon017]

I didnt mean it in a way of just build hydras and win because then it wouldnt be zerg. I want to see the units you listed take on a group of rines maroders and thors and win.., GOD forbid they have tanks also

[DemolitionSquid]

I didnt mean it in a way of just build hydras and win because then it wouldnt be zerg. I want to see the units you listed take on a group of rines maroders and thors and win.., GOD forbid they have tanks also

The Cheapest counter to M+M+T I can think of would be Infestors + Zerglings + Banelings. Neural Parasite the Thors, Fungal Growth the M+M to stop them from moving, and hit them all with Zerglings and Banelings.

[Josue]

W... W... Wait a second! Do baneling explosions affect air units?
that's awesome... er I mean awe inspiring.

[DemolitionSquid]

W... W... Wait a second! Do baneling explosions affect air units?

No.

If you're referring to the new TvZ game, the HSM shot from the Raven hits everything in its AoE. Any friendly units caught in its blast, including the Raven which shot the HSM, will take damage.

[RamiZ]

Sadly Demo Roaches do not start with 15 HP/sec cause it would be unkillable with 160 HP. Maybe Burrowed yes, but no way it has 15 HP/sec regen, they just die to fast. I don't know, new Roach just doesn't fit anywhere :/

[DemolitionSquid]

Sadly Demo Roaches do not start with 15 HP/sec cause it would be unkillable with 160 HP. Maybe Burrowed yes, but no way it has 15 HP/sec regen, they just die to fast. I don't know, new Roach just doesn't fit anywhere :/

It was 15, 25 last I heard. The 160 HP is because its tier 2 now, to deal with Marauders and Zealots better I guess.

[PsiWarp]

I heard it's 5 HP/sec and upgrade at Hive tech for 10 HP/sec, which causes the team color to appear on Roach spikes from the recent screenshot.

I also heard Roach and Hydralisk switch places again, but I have no source to confirm that.


-Psi