Zerg Revamped

[Braylon017]

As a big Starcraft fan the news of Starcraft II was very exciting. I watch every gameplay video and hope to play Beta soon, but one thing is very troubling. The zerg have never won any matches. Yea sure the skill level of some of the players are lacking but is it really that hard. As I watched the gstar zvt desert I was excited to see what looked like the zerg winning, but 2 my surprise they lost again. I love the zerg and have an idea on what can keep them in the game. We all know that zerg need a hatch to do about everything so make it more of a primary structure. What I mean is depending on which level your hatchery is on your units and buildings should be likewise. There are 3 different structures if you didnt know which are: Hatchery Lair Hive The hatch should now build units up 2 tier 2, but all units are still tier 1. Mutas, lurkers, roaches ect. can all be built but they are smaller/weaker. As you upgrade to a lair everything upgrades. Zerglings should be bigger and stronger as all the units.

[Perfecttear]

......

[Braylon017]

Buildings should regen faster and creep extends longer. To make it balanced make it so if you have 1 hive and 2 hatcheries only the hive can make a tier 3 zergling while the hatcheries still make tier 1. You can still do upgrades but an upgraded tier 3 zergling can cause more trouble the 6 tier 1 upgraded lings. The hatcheries should take longer to mutate since it is giving more energy to its structures and units. This way if you fast lair one of you hatcheries you can keep up with zealots, stalkers, ect. Yes the time of mutation has to be balanced but it can work. It would be fun to have an assortment of tier 1, 2, and 3 hydras. Keeps the zerg fresh and new. Do you guys think this is a good idea??

[Gifted]

Buildings should regen faster and creep extends longer. To make it balanced make it so if you have 1 hive and 2 hatcheries only the hive can make a tier 3 zergling while the hatcheries still make tier 1. You can still do upgrades but an upgraded tier 3 zergling can cause more trouble the 6 tier 1 upgraded lings. The hatcheries should take longer to mutate since it is giving more energy to its structures and units. This way if you fast lair one of you hatcheries you can keep up with zealots, stalkers, ect. Yes the time of mutation has to be balanced but it can work. It would be fun to have an assortment of tier 1, 2, and 3 hydras. Keeps the zerg fresh and new. Do you guys think this is a good idea??

While I think it has a lot of "That would be cool?!!" factor in it, it would be absolutely impossible to balance and tune to the degree that StarCraft 2 demands.

The reason being that in pro games right now on SC1, some games come down to the individual mineral/gas usage, as in to the degree of 10 minerals could decide the game in many occasions. (I've seen too many games that a unit coming out 1 second later or earlier would have swayed the game)

For this reason, by significantly increasing the cost to produce units and provide different levels of units, you create a very dynamic game, but a game that is unstable. The meta game would be too diverse to actually find a "happy median".


EDIT: [After thinking, this is already in the game]

HOWEVER, this is already in the game in some factor. By upgrading your unit's damage and armor, you create "higher levels" of units. A hydra with 3/3 is significantly different and in a sense "higher teir" than a hydra with 0/0. By doing it in this fashion instead of the one you suggest, we create a "stable" setup that is balanced across all three races. The fact that each indivudual unit is changed by these decisions of what and when to upgrade creates a more unified meta game that changes depending on each unique unit.

[0neder]

One of the three new videos has a zerg either beating or coming close to beating a terran. He really had the terran on the ropes at least, as I remember....

[RamiZ]

Also Roach is totally changed. From what I get from SCwiki.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Roach

Roach lost burrowed movement, but they get burrow from the start, no need for an upgrade(which doesn't make sense at all since I will upgrade burrow for banelings anyway...). Also their damage is now 11+3 vs Light, and they have regen even when not burrowed, but a lot higher regen rate while burrowed(we all knew that) and can be upgraded at Hive for more regen, about 10 hp/sec...

Dunno, I liked Tier 1 Roach, this change is somehow... don't really like it... And we saw that Roaches seems to be weak from those games and battle reports... They are even doing now less damage(when counting bonus damage) than they did when they were tier 1.

[Blazur]

...but one thing is very troubling. The zerg have never won any matches.

I share your concern, and also am worried that the Terrans are slightly overpowered (at least on paper) with their flexibility and ease of choke blocking coupled with the Planetary Fortress. But we need to trust that the beta will resolve any of these concerns.

[Nicol Bolas]

Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

In SC1, what was the most difficult race for a n00b to play even semi-correctly? The Zerg. Why? Because they have an extra resource to manage, and they behave entirely differently from any other race with regard to centralized production.

Above all other races, the Zerg need understanding. The Zerg flat-out don't work unless you understand what they have, how it works, how to best use it to your advantage, and when to build what.

This is even more important in SC2. Here, larva management now has added nonsense of the Queen's Spawn Larva. Add to that the fact that units have changed subtly (just because it's called a Hydralisk and is at Tier 1 doesn't make it a replica of the SC1 Hydralisk), and so forth. Someone familiar with SC1 really has no idea how to use the SC2 Zerg.

Until players appear who demonstrate an actual understanding of SC2 Zerg; players who are going to use things like Nydus Worms, Mutalisks, Corruptors, Infestors, and Baneling drops from Overlords; until people actually learn how to use Tier 2 instead of trying to build a bunch of random stuff and A-moving, it's too soon to start saying that the Zerg need major reworking.

[DemolitionSquid]

Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

In SC1, what was the most difficult race for a n00b to play even semi-correctly? The Zerg. Why? Because they have an extra resource to manage, and they behave entirely differently from any other race with regard to centralized production.

Above all other races, the Zerg need understanding. The Zerg flat-out don't work unless you understand what they have, how it works, how to best use it to your advantage, and when to build what.

This is even more important in SC2. Here, larva management now has added nonsense of the Queen's Spawn Larva. Add to that the fact that units have changed subtly (just because it's called a Hydralisk and is at Tier 1 doesn't make it a replica of the SC1 Hydralisk), and so forth. Someone familiar with SC1 really has no idea how to use the SC2 Zerg.

Until players appear who demonstrate an actual understanding of SC2 Zerg; players who are going to use things like Nydus Worms, Mutalisks, Corruptors, Infestors, and Baneling drops from Overlords; until people actually learn how to use Tier 2 instead of trying to build a bunch of random stuff and A-moving, it's too soon to start saying that the Zerg need major reworking.

All very true.

But I must state that I'm still disappointed with some of the design choices. The Roach really is a joke - a ranged tank in tier 2? With a needlessly complex (albeit obviously micro-rewarding) regeneration system?

From the looks of it, I'll be playing Protoss come 2010.

[Braylon017]

I just feel that by the time you reach good units for the zerg like lurkers and ultralisk the terran are already killing everything. In SC 1 2 sunkens and 6 lings could defend a base real quick and by the time ran or toss started making goons and tank you would have your hydras ready... without the hydra being an all around unit "in sc2 they are anti-air" without more units zerg will be extremely hard for anybody.... David Kim has even lost his first match as zerg. I think main units for toss are zealots and stalkers for terran its marines thors and maroders.., Zerg have no front line soldiers.. From what i seen maybe an ultralisk but other then that its a bunch of counters