Idea: Scatter button

[PhanttoM]

Which means units in the front move forward, units in the back move back.

That's a bit random when some units are going to move closer to the enemy, perhaps within range of their ranged units. There's no control on how far or how long they will move away either. It's sort of a dangerous maneuver since the center of your unit group doesn't equal the target of the ability you want to scatter from.

I still don't think it's random - the whole point of a scatter command is to avoid a big AoE at 'ground zero', and outwards from a central point is always predictable, but not nessesarily practical in a certain situation.
It's just another choice one has to make.

As for distance/length control - In that other game, units would continue to scatter outwards for as long as you held the X button. It meant that you could just quickly tap it for "unstacking" a cluster of units.

[DemolitionSquid]

A "scatter" button would actually be more effective as a targeted spell. Instead of telling your units to scatter willy-nilly from the center of their formation, you could target a spot on the map and all units would run away from that spot for X seconds. If you target the center of your formation, your units will spread out 360 degrees. But if you're running into a group of Lurkers, you could click the Lurkers and have all your forces "scatter" in the opposite direction.

Not that I'm supporting such an idea; actual micro is still better.

[ArcherofAiur]

Guess what kind of reflex clicking we like. I'll give you a hint: it has something to do with being based on decisions made.


A Scatter button wouldn't be bad "because it's context-less clicking" -- it indeed requires the same context to use as scattering units manually. From this angle, it's fine. I'm not against the thing on principle; we create shortcuts for macro all the time, there's no reason we can't do the same for micro.

So for the record you would support a scatter button because it puts the focus on the decision to scatter and not how fast you can click?

[Triceron]

units would continue to scatter outwards for as long as you held the X button

That's a bad idea. Any kind of ability that requires you to hold a button down for any duration is counter productive to micro speed. A pro would never use such a feature, and a mediocre player relying on such an ability would never work towards being pro. It destroys APM momentum.

Even select group -> click move to safe ground is easier and doesn't tie up your mouse. It's easier for the opponent to cast 3 fire-and-forget psi storms than it would be for you to scatter your troops.

[n00bonicPlague]

So what happens when just a few of your 255 units in the group are half way across the map and you scatter?

As for a "castable" scatter, you might as well spend the exact same number of clicks with the move command.

[ArcherofAiur]

So what happens when just a few of your 255 units in the group are half way across the map and you scatter?

As for a "castable" scatter, you might as well spend the exact same number of clicks with the move command.

Several possible ways have aleady been proposed. Its not a question of can it be done. It can, other games have shown that much.
The real question is if it is appropriate for Starcraft. Do we want to test the players decision making or the players ability to click?

Like macro, I think scattering should primarily test players clicking skill.

[PhanttoM]

That's a bad idea. Any kind of ability that requires you to hold a button down for any duration is counter productive to micro speed. A pro would never use such a feature, and a mediocre player relying on such an ability would never work towards being pro. It destroys APM momentum.

I just pointed out how it was done in another game - I myself don't like having to hold buttons for extended periods.
But for the sake of ideas - A variation of that method could involve tapping the button X or Y amount of times for incremental scatter strength, which would suddenly make the move an APM sink.

And I probably should have started off saying this; but I knew coming into this thread that things like scatter and formation commands are extremely unlikely to ever be implemented into SC - as ArcherofAiur said: "The real question is if it is appropriate for Starcraft" and frankly even I would say no.

[Alex06]

Ppl would complain that it would be too c&c-ish.

So I disagree with the idea, nuff said.

Doesn't mean if C&C did it that no other game can and that it's bad and must be avoided at all costs...

[newcomplex]

To hell with C&C and another micro-killing idea.

The thing is, its almost not possible to micro a scatter, and completely unviable admists all your other micro and macro tasks.

It would add only a new tactic that was never previously used, and can only contribute to gameplay depth.

[pure.Wasted]

So for the record you would support a scatter button because it puts the focus on the decision to scatter and not how fast you can click?

Think about that for a second. We've all always agreed that the game should always present a player with more things to do than he can manage, right? Therein would lie the challenge, obviously.

Well, how can that be without at least a peripheral focus on reflex clicking? It can't. I'm not against reflex clicks. They are fundamentally necessary, and I'd never say anything to contradict that. But they should have thought behind them.


The problem with micro is coming up with enough tricks to fill the gaps. See how much trouble we've been having coming up with new macro mechanics to replace the old ones? Take out manual scattering, now it's micro that's taking a nose dive.

In SC3, started now from scratch, I'd be for it -- given that Blizzard realized that it would require replacing on a massive scale. That is to say, they'd have to introduce new micro-intensive elements to the game, probably by making combat more complex in general. Such as for example a cover system.

At this point it's too much of a departure for SC2. We have to pick our battles.