New screenshot - Disruptor chaos in a Zerg base

[Nicol Bolas]

Why? Because the tentacle is just drawn in front of the unit? What stops the tentacle doing the same in the 3D space? It's just a matter of drawing the tentacle closer to the camera.

Because there is no unit overlap in SC1; there is in SC2. Because they're using a perspective projection, there are lots of cases where a unit is partially or fully obscured. If you're going to bias the depth value of a tentacle (and depth values are non-linear, so how much you have to bias them to move it in front of something else has to be computed), then you have to know how much to stop biasing the depth, so that the tentacle doesn't show through something that's obscuring the unit. This is based on the unit's model size, and even position on the screen. And then you have to deal with how it interacts with non-entity models (corpses) and so forth.

Or, you know, they could avoid all of this and simply change the look of the attack. Which they have done. There's really no point in doing something as complicated as depth biasing the tentacle when you can just redesign the attack so that it actually works properly in 3D. It even looks better.

[Triceron]

'Looks better' is an opinion not all of us share.

The case is a tentacle appearing behind a unit instead of in front, and reason is due to the perspective and depth rendering. If the tentacle was spawned to clip through the said unit, you would still see the tentacle popping through the unit unless that unit was completely obscured. I don't see what the problem is. Like you said, it's 3D. The tentacle is 3D, meaning it doesn't need to be drawn on top of anything. It can literally clip through the unit. You would see the tentacle popping up through the center of the unit.

Add some impact effects, blood spatter or whatnot to make the tentacle more noticeable. Throw in the classic Sunken Colony attack sound. There's no way you could miss seeing your units being attacked when there's a giant tentacle popping up from the ground in the middle of your army.

[Norfindel]

Because there is no unit overlap in SC1; there is in SC2. Because they're using a perspective projection, there are lots of cases where a unit is partially or fully obscured. If you're going to bias the depth value of a tentacle (and depth values are non-linear, so how much you have to bias them to move it in front of something else has to be computed), then you have to know how much to stop biasing the depth, so that the tentacle doesn't show through something that's obscuring the unit. This is based on the unit's model size, and even position on the screen. And then you have to deal with how it interacts with non-entity models (corpses) and so forth.

Or, you know, they could avoid all of this and simply change the look of the attack. Which they have done. There's really no point in doing something as complicated as depth biasing the tentacle when you can just redesign the attack so that it actually works properly in 3D. It even looks better.

I don't agree about it looking better. The idea of the tentacle going underground (even if done because a tech limitation), was good.

You also make it look like it's really complicated, but you only have to use the collision detection you already have, and draw the tentacle. If something's in the place, just draw it anyways, it will be obscured by whatever is there, or will look like it's attacking both units, or something like that. That already happened before.

Or just draw the tentacle thru the target unit as suggested before, that's probably the best approach.

Also, you're ignoring the fact that with the new system, the tentacle is going to either impale every object in it's path to get to it's target, or use the collision algorithm as the Sunken would to dodge them, which also requires the thing to flex. I wonder what happends if you have 10 Thors in a vertical line, and order the tentacle to attack an SCV behind them.

[Blazur]

I don't agree about it looking better. The idea of the tentacle going underground (even if done because a tech limitation), was good.

Yeah, the new spine crawler attack definitely looks hokey. On one hand I can understand their reasoning for changing it, that possibly being so that it makes it more obvious where the attack is coming from. Or they're attempting to make sense of an attack that spans a gap in terrain. But the older attack still had a more menacing feel to it.

If their reasoning is because of balance, surely they could have made it still go underground, but instead of poking straight up it would punch through the ground at an angle so you could still discern where it came from. But with units as big as the Thor and Ultralisk players may not even see the spike protrude from the ground.

[ArcherofAiur]

Oh my god you guys. Here

Short range: attacks above the ground

Long range: attacks under the ground

Long range with gap in terrain: attacks above the ground




Ok everybody happy?

[Triceron]

Not really, because I don't want it attacking above ground at all. It looks terrible.

[ArcherofAiur]

Not really, because I don't want it attacking above ground at all. It looks terrible.

Even when a marine is standing right next to the spine crawler? Youd rather have the tentacle go down between his legs and then make a 180 and come right back up?

[Triceron]

Yes.

The exact same way the old Sunken Colonies attacked. Why should it switch attack animations just because a unit is near? It's not like it has a melee attack, it's still using that tentacle. If it's going to attack at a distance through underground, it makes no difference if it uses the same attack up close.

[PsiWarp]

Might as well make the tentacle come from under the Spine Crawler's belly, have it act as a tail when in mobile form. That way, you can have it pull a "diaphragm" and make a tentacle burst from underground, while not looking awkward having it above ground first.

That image seems to me like a six-sided sea star with a long tongue stretching from its stomach...


-Psi

[ArcherofAiur]

Might as well make the tentacle come from under the Spine Crawler's belly, have it act as a tail when in mobile form. That way, you can have it pull a "diaphragm" and make a tentacle burst from underground, while not looking awkward having it above ground first.

That image seems to me like a six-sided sea star with a long tongue stretching from its stomach...


-Psi

So basicaly a stationary building that has no visible attack except for a tentacle tip that pops up among enemies in its radius. I dont think that sounds hella cool.