Planetary Fortress discussion

[Norfindel]

How is turtling like hell bad gameplay? It is bad if it is imbalanced, but it should allow you to out expand them and/or commit too many of their forces to defending multiple locations.

It should be a viable strategy, just like the early rush... Just make it a Balanced Strategy.

It's pretty bad when you must burn a lot of your units just to enter the enemy base, even with economic advantage, because dropped/approaching units get hammered badly by several Siege Tanks that were keeped there as a "last standing force", instead of just calling GG when the other player has obvious map control.

My worry is that PF, 6-unit Bunkers, 13-range Tanks, 10-range GtA Thors, submerging Depots, etc, create situations were entering a Terran base is too much of a pain in the ass, but at least there are better AtG units now, and Terrans look weak against air. The Immortal could help against Tanks, but i have my doubts about their performance under mixed fire. Not to mention what happends in ZvsT.

[Crazy_Jonny]

It's pretty bad when you must burn a lot of your units just to enter the enemy base, even with economic advantage, because dropped/approaching units get hammered badly by several Siege Tanks that were keeped there as a "last standing force", instead of just calling GG when the other player has obvious map control.

My worry is that PF, 6-unit Bunkers, 13-range Tanks, 10-range GtA Thors, submerging Depots, etc, create situations were entering a Terran base is too much of a pain in the ass, but at least there are better AtG units now, and Terrans look weak against air. The Immortal could help against Tanks, but i have my doubts about their performance under mixed fire. Not to mention what happends in ZvsT.

Meh, take PF out of that situation, and your still dealing with a lot of crap. It can be easily taken care of with, say, immortals and warp rays, or Ultras and Guardians. A good player will find ways to bypass those defenses with minimal effort.

And if you give your opponent enough time to build that crap up, its your fault really.

[Krikkitone]

Well for breaking that

Ultralisks (anti-building attack, splash damage, highest hp of any non unique unit) + Broodlords (spawning 'Broodling Bombs') seems like it should be able to make it through.... plus perhaps MCing some Thors or Tanks if the infesters can stay out of detection range.


For Protoss
Immortals... still decently high hp units and they seem to do great damage v. armor (everything there, until the Marines/Marauders are out of their Bunkers).. and Bunkers are the only thing that wouldn't activate their shields)
Psi Storm v. Tanks, Phase Shift v. Thors
Vortex (I guess Vortex would include buidings??)+Time bomb... and cloak to give you an ability to approach with Templars and not get them Tanked
Void Rays and Carriers when the AA is low/gone

For Terrans...
You have your own Siege Tanks, as well as Thor and Battlecruisers (with Yamato and/or Defensive Matrix)


It'd be tough, but I think it'd be doable... and it could be made balanced.

[DemolitionSquid]

I'd just like to remind everyone that currently, vespene is much harder to acquire, and counters are much harder then in SC1... so all your "ill counter PF with BL, Ultra, VR, Immortals, etc" may not be as feasible as you think.

[Santrega]

I'd just like to remind everyone that currently, vespene is much harder to acquire, and counters are much harder then in SC1... so all your "ill counter PF with BL, Ultra, VR, Immortals, etc" may not be as feasible as you think.

DS is imbalanced due to mass effect. He does variable damage based on how much he drinks, therefore over the course of a discussion he is unable to be balanced and must be replaced.



in terms of countering the PF, I think clearly ATG units will be best, void rays/banshees/Brood Lords for example...

[ArcherofAiur]

DS is imbalanced due to mass effect. He does variable damage based on how much he drinks, therefore over the course of a discussion he is unable to be balanced and must be replaced.

Epic!

[DemolitionSquid]

Gotta love false logic.

My point stands. Ultras and Thors are very expensive, Void Rays and Brood Lords have very hard, cheap counters. Building enough to take down a PF with minimal problem could leave you very weak in another area. Which of course, is the entire point of the game - decision making - but shouldn't be ignored. I think in most cases you'd be better off attacking the workers than the PF.

[ArcherofAiur]

You guys and your decision making obsessions...

[Kimera757]

You guys and your decision making obsessions...

If you're a real-life general, you're spending all your combat time making decisions. If you're not, you should be replaced.

[DemolitionSquid]

The main problem here is our design philosophies.

I, Nicol, PureWasted, and pretty much everyone else believe that SC should have as much decision making and choice as possible, and anything which cannot or does not offer decision making or choice should simply be automated.

Archer is of the opinion that build orders and repetition are the most important part of the game, and decision making should be secondary to promoting mechanical skill.

Personally, I find Archers approach to be an abomination.