Phase Shift doesn't work on your own units?

[Kimera757]

It's not so much that. If Phase Out still allows the unit to move (and we have heard nothing either way on this), then you can essentially guarantee that a drop makes it to the location of interest by Phasing it out before it enters contested territory.

I think I saw a report in IgroMir (somewhere anyway) that phased units can move and but can't attack or cast spells.

[unentschieden]

I suspect it´s the same limitation that keeps Goblin sappers from being target of the Invisibility spell.
It´s really usefull most of the time but in certain cases it´s definetly broken. It´s easy to see how Fade on the Prism can be problematic.

[FrozenArbiter]

It's not so much that. If Phase Out still allows the unit to move (and we have heard nothing either way on this), then you can essentially guarantee that a drop makes it to the location of interest by Phasing it out before it enters contested territory.

Not sure how long the SC version lasts, but the WC3 version didn't last very long (well, on LVL3 it kinda did) AND caused the unit to move very slowly. Was still used for some sick escapes but meh.

I wouldn't be overly worried - you could also institute a "doesn't work on air units" clause if you want.

[ArcherofAiur]

Not sure how long the SC version lasts, but the WC3 version didn't last very long (well, on LVL3 it kinda did) AND caused the unit to move very slowly. Was still used for some sick escapes but meh.

I wouldn't be overly worried - you could also institute a "doesn't work on air units" clause if you want.

I agree with Arby. "Sweet I can get my transport past his bunker. Oh great now his army is camped out below my transport and hes building turrets."

Of course you could time it so it wore off right when you got to your destination but that brings up another point. The most important transport action occurs with the opponent has little defence anyway (like a reaver drop). Once you know the opponent has gone for drops youll start making mineral line defense which means as soon as your transports come out of phase thell be shot down.

[Aldrius]

Too be honest I liked HT when it had Temporal Rift + Psi Storm combo (oh hello slow army, welcome to your doom!)

Eh, you get the same affect if another spell caster has temporal rift, though.

Im not that thrilled at the phoenix "small unit cyclone" AND the HT "big unit cyclone w/drawback". Pick one and dont waste design space.

The HT spell is more like banish from WC3 than anything. And the Phoenix ability is a reversed ensnare. Neither is anything like cyclone really. Plus, one immobilizes and one prevents action. And they come from completely different units, from completely different branches of the tech-tree.

Anyway, I think Phase Shift should definitely work on your own units. Impose the slower movement speed if abuse is an issue. There are just way too many cool strategies that can be used with it to limit it to a crowd control spell.

[ArcherofAiur]

The HT spell is more like banish from WC3 than anything. And the Phoenix ability is a reversed ensnare. Neither is anything like cyclone really. Plus, one immobilizes and one prevents action. And they come from completely different units, from completely different branches of the tech-tree.

I know the differences. I just dont think their big differences. I think most of the time your using the spell for the same role.

[Krikkitone]

As I recall units inside a Vortex can be shot at.

Are you Sure about that?... from the few graphics of it, it appeared that once a unit went into a vortex, it disappeared (ie there was nothing to shoot at)



Also the Phoenix ability is Not like Ensnare/Web, because Ensnare/Web lets a unit continue to attack.... which I think Should be done for Anti gravity.

If AntiGravity Was trully a "Reverse Web" where it allowed the unit to continue to attack, then it would NOT be used like Phase Shift is (defeat the enemy in detail by killing 1/2 of them, then the other 1/2).

However, last information I had, AG was
No action, no move, yes to get hit



One problem with making the Phase shift slow movement is that it renders it closer to AntiGrav in terms of increasing "immobilization"... also if you want to make it a "save unit" then you need to allow that unit to retreat.. which means it needs to move at a reasonable speed.

Perhaps introduce something like

Phase Shift
1. unit can't do anything but move (and see)
2. unit can't get hit
3. Unit has speed capped at ~10-15 (rather than 50% reduction)
4. Unit has 0 collision size....so that it helps a unit that wants to retreat


Or possibly.... when a unit is Phase Shifted, all units it is carrying immediately drop .... Possibly even to the nearest land if you want it not to be an instant "Kill the transport's cargo"

What do you think about that rule.... it seems ok with lore, and it doesn't restrict the target in a wierd way (as in 'no Transports'... which would be wierder than 'no goblin sappers')

so
Phase Shift... lasts X seconds
1. unit can't do anything but move (and see)
2. unit can't get hit
3. Unit drops all cargo on nearest land tile [Interceptors don't count as cargo]


OK so proposed changes...

Phase Shift... can cast on friend, but causes target units to instadump cargo on nearest land tile (target unit can't be picked up either?)

Anti Grav.... can cast on friend, but targets can continue to attack and cast spells (to differentiate strategically from Phase Shift+Vortex)

Vortex... if it let's you get shot at, stop that.

What do people think of that?

[FrozenArbiter]

I thought they said if you anti-grav a baneling it can kill your phoenixes if it self-destructs :P?

[Krikkitone]

I thought they said if you anti-grav a baneling it can kill your phoenixes if it self-destructs :P?

But banelings do damage when they die... I don't think it is that they can do their normal attacks.

If they can then... well I can see baneling being the exception (lifted baneling doing Air damage instead of Ground damage).. but otherwise they should do the same type of damage.. ie a lifted Hellion/Siege Tank/Marauder/Immortal/Roach/Reaper should be able to shoot units on the ground below it, but not ones in the air

[Norfindel]

I agree, it should be able to be casted on your own units. After all, the energy requirement limits you. I don't think it could be abused, and it can open a bunch of interesting uses.

Oh, the problem is that if the unit can move, it can bypass defenses, right? :-/
But then, you would better NOT use it near your own defenses, as the enemy can exploit it.