Phase Shift doesn't work on your own units?

[ArcherofAiur]

Too be honest I liked HT when it had Temporal Rift + Psi Storm combo (oh hello slow army, welcome to your doom!)

Im not that thrilled at the phoenix "small unit cyclone" AND the HT "big unit cyclone w/drawback". Pick one and dont waste design space.

[Krikkitone]

There are more differences than Big v. small (although that is one)

AG is a Maelstrom not a Cyclone

Phase Shift Probably allows a unit to move


So ....
1. Small, Ground unit cannot shoot, or move, but can take damage, becomes an air unit
2. Unit cannot shoot, or take damage

The Only thing similar is the Cannot Shoot... now admitedly that is a big reason why they will be used.

So Perhaps that should be changed... if you AntiGrav a unit it can still attack (it would still be able to attack G or Air with the same limitations as before)...although the "no move" would eliminate the ability of melee units...(all 4 of them)

So Zealots, Dark Templars, Ultralisks* (can't be AG'd anyways), Zerglings, and Lurkers would still be 'paralyzed' [Lurkers probably couldn't attack because they couldn't burrow]

I think that would separate the abilities well enough (and mean no more AG' ing Siege tanks...unless you intend to kill them)

So it would be good v. breaking Lurkers


Then let AG get used on your own units.... THAT sounds like a neat way to save... my Templar will get overrun with Zerglings, AG him, and he can Psi Storm from safety

[ArcherofAiur]

Phased units can move. Thats what i meant by drawback. the point is any way you slice it they are still mad similar.

[Krikkitone]

Phased units can move. Thats what i meant by drawback. the point is any way you slice it they are still mad similar.

Um no 1 similarity only

AG v. Phase Shift v. Vortex

Target: Small, Ground v. all (large for cost) v. Area (units can enter)..includes friendlies
Shoot/act: No v. No v. No
Move: No v. Yes v. No
Get hit: Yes* v. No v. No

* makes the unit hit by air attacks

Vortex's unique target makes it very unique... its a 'wait for some reinforcements' use only... because you can't defeat the enemy in detail.. they just all enter the Vortex. so you keep your units safe from the enemy (either by putting the enemy in the Vortex or going in yourself)... until your

The only similarity between AG and Phase shift are
1. they both stop the target from shooting
2. they are targeted at a single enemy unit

Now #1 there is a Major similarity, and a primary way they have been used, but...

I'd say they could make them more unique, and make AG Much more interesting by
1. Allowing AG units to shoot/perform non-movement actions
2. Allow AG to be targeted at friendlies.

I think that would move into some new 'design space' by making
1. AG primarily used against enemies so that they will more rapidly be destroyed (by your Phoenixes) rather than neutralizing them, but keeping them alive.

2. AG primarily used on Firendlies to keep them alive (and Active)


So with that Change

Vortex= Wait for reinforcements / give us time to retreat
Phase Shift= Defeat in detail
AG=Kill the enemy faster [dominant] / Protect my unit [interesting]

[DemolitionSquid]

All abilities should be usable on all units, friendly or enemy, to provide maximum strategic possibly. Anything less is unacceptable.

[ArcherofAiur]

Vortex's unique target makes it very unique...

Thats weak. Ill give you that its unique if thats what you want to call unique. And if you think that pushs the boundaries of a diverse spell set well then thats your opinion. Personally, I think they could do allot better.

[Krikkitone]

All abilities should be usable on all units, friendly or enemy, to provide maximum strategic possibly. Anything less is unacceptable.

Some would either be totally unbalanced (Consume on enemies?) or totally useless in Any strategic sense (Yamato on Friends?... as long as Feedback is involved that might make sense..otherwise)

The big problem is different strategic uses of an ability May have different values, and if Blizzard wants an ability to be used in one strategic sense, but there is a Different strategic sense that is more valuable, then they can't properly balance the ability around what they Want it to help the player do... not without adding some restrictions.

So Neural Parasite is uncastable on Psionics, ? maybe because otherwise it was overpowered v. High Templars and under powered v. others

So Phase Shift gets uncastable on Friendly, because the value of the invincible transport is far more than the value of the intended , (neutered ulta/archon/thor/BC/Carrier/Broodlord)... and they figure retaining That use is worth losing the "save yourself" usage.



As for Vortex's target... It is very unique in that it makes it Strategically different....
You can't defeat the enemy in detail with Vortex, like you can with Phase Shift or AG (currently).
If you try to Vortex 1/2 the enemy, the other 1/2 just flees into the Vortex and wait for their friends to come back to join them. (you might be able to do it if you Vortex the air/ranged half over a cliff from the other ground 1/2)

It provides some temporary disruption, but you need to either have reinforcements or be running away for it to be useful.

That is the problem with AG and Phase Shift, not that they are too similar, but that their similarity results in similar strategies.

And AG would make far more sense to change than Phase Shift, as it has more potential uses than "defeat in detail" (primary use of Phase Shift since it can't be used for 'save friendly'

[n00bonicPlague]

As I recall units inside a Vortex can be shot at.

[blackholexan]

I think they don't allow Fade on your unit because the ability make a unit unable to attack, but this way spellcasters would be able to use their abilities nevertheless.

I mean: Fade your HT and send him alone to cast Psi Storm without any retaliation....just plain and simple. I think that spellcasters would be the problem.

If they Fade would negate spellcasting:
on the one hand --> I see no problem on using it on my units (well...transport would be an issue as many of you have pointed it out)
on the other hand --> If Fade negates spellcasting too...well may be a bit overpowered.

Maybe the easiest solution would be to balance Fade and Psi Storm energy costs and cooldown times to avoid this simple-single unit- combo.

[n00bonicPlague]

It prevents all units from doing anything. All they can do is either move or sit still.