IgroMir 2009: imba.Adolf[RA] reports his SC2 opinions

[ArcherofAiur]

Wonder if there will be an "Idle PC" button.

Not a bad idea.

[DemolitionSquid]

Not a bad idea.

... I'm not sure if that was sarcastic, or you actually just admitted you're stupid.

Edit: Nvm. I just remembered Archer actually does support APM sinks, so he wasn't being sarcastic.

[pure.Wasted]

K, moving on to the next batch!


1. Is it a good idea for certain units to have no wait period before attacking? Right now I'm thinking specifically of Siege Tanks and Colossi, based on BR4 and imba.Adolf's impressions. Both can pop in and out of their respective shuttles without taking any hits. This seems like a pretty arbitrary and "cheap" way of adding micro to a unit. Is there a reason these two should have it above others? Is there something gained by all units not having the same wait period before attacking?

2. Do we like the Raven being as "self-sufficient" and versatile as it is now? It's become something of an alternative combat flyer... that is, it's good for the same combat situations you'd expect a standard all-purpose fighter to be, it just uses spells to do this instead of a straight-forward attack. Do we like that it's not relegated to the support role... and in fact, doesn't really *have* support type abilities?

3. What should be done about the Immortals, if anything? Are they in trouble because the units they're meant to hard counter appear rarer than intended? Should they gain some more universal functions, or be returned to the Warp Gate, to compensate?

[sandwich_bird]

2. Do we like the Raven being as "self-sufficient" and versatile as it is now? It's become something of an alternative combat flyer... that is, it's good for the same combat situations you'd expect a standard all-purpose fighter to be, it just uses spells to do this instead of a straight-forward attack. Do we like that it's not relegated to the support role... and in fact, doesn't really *have* support type abilities?

It's a support unit like the HT except it's better because not only can he cast a powerfull kill everything spell (HSM instead of storm) he can place turrets and mines(? that's what they said. Not really sure what they meant there).

[Nicol Bolas]

Is it a good idea for certain units to have no wait period before attacking?

What makes you say that only certain units have no wait period? The main problem with the ST example is that Stalker attacks aren't hitscan, so there's time for the ST to get pulled in the transport.

What should be done about the Immortals, if anything?

Again, a Beta question. Sooner or later, some Protoss player is going to realize that Immortals, cost for cost, do more damage to armored units than anything else the Protoss have. At which point, they'll see a Terran going for Marauders and Thors, plop down 4 Robo's and melt the Terran army.

Hardened shields or no, Immortals still have teeth. And they would have saved the Protoss in BR4.

I consider units like Immortals and Reapers to be "subject to discovery." You don't want to mess with them before people have had the opportunity to play around with the game and create a way to use them.

[pure.Wasted]

What makes you say that only certain units have no wait period? The main problem with the ST example is that Stalker attacks aren't hitscan, so there's time for the ST to get pulled in the transport.

I assumed this was the case because I thought that's how it worked in SC1 -- specifically, the reason that Goliaths are so much better at mine-hunting than other units. I thought it was because they, as opposed to other units, had a shorter waiting period.

But this could all be wrong. :/

I consider units like Immortals and Reapers to be "subject to discovery." You don't want to mess with them before people have had the opportunity to play around with the game and create a way to use them.

Good points. I was kind of fishing here with the Immortal, since... they were actually very useful in BR3 doing the thing that most people would NOT expect them to be any good at. That is, fighting Zerg. So they obviously have potential... although that was during their Warp Gate ways, and I'm still kinda iffy on them being moved. It just doesn't make much gameplay sense -- doesn't feel very intuitive. Like putting Ghosts on the Starport because it's higher tech, or something.


But mostly I was just trying to start up more discussion. :/ So much info and fresh impressions, and most people don't even have anything to say.

[Nicol Bolas]

I assumed this was the case because I thought that's how it worked in SC1 -- specifically, the reason that Goliaths are so much better at mine-hunting than other units. I thought it was because they, as opposed to other units, had a shorter waiting period.

I thought you were specifically talking about Medivac micro-ing units.

It's fine to have units with instant attacks, as long as those units are balanced with that in mind. Non-instant attacks can be dodged, and therefore need to be properly balanced against those that can't be. In SC1, mine dodging was pretty important. In SC2, this is less so, so this particular facet of units won't be as significant.

[Krikkitone]

K, moving on to the next batch!

2. Do we like the Raven being as "self-sufficient" and versatile as it is now? It's become something of an alternative combat flyer... that is, it's good for the same combat situations you'd expect a standard all-purpose fighter to be, it just uses spells to do this instead of a straight-forward attack. Do we like that it's not relegated to the support role... and in fact, doesn't really *have* support type abilities?

I have to say I'm disappointed with that, I definitely think casters should have support type abilities... including the occasional massive AoE type damage (which is still support).

(Ie Snipe should be balanced around having a range almost as long a a Siege Tank, so the Ghost is supporting other units)

The Point Defense Drones does seem to provide some "support" function. I'd say replace Either the HK or the Turret with the Targeting Drone.

[DemolitionSquid]

1. Is it a good idea for certain units to have no wait period before attacking? Right now I'm thinking specifically of Siege Tanks and Colossi, based on BR4 and imba.Adolf's impressions. Both can pop in and out of their respective shuttles without taking any hits. This seems like a pretty arbitrary and "cheap" way of adding micro to a unit. Is there a reason these two should have it above others? Is there something gained by all units not having the same wait period before attacking?

I think it adds valuable micro, and all units should have access to it.

2. Do we like the Raven being as "self-sufficient" and versatile as it is now? It's become something of an alternative combat flyer... that is, it's good for the same combat situations you'd expect a standard all-purpose fighter to be, it just uses spells to do this instead of a straight-forward attack. Do we like that it's not relegated to the support role... and in fact, doesn't really *have* support type abilities?

Raven should be support. Auto-Turret is good. Other abilities blow.

3. What should be done about the Immortals, if anything? Are they in trouble because the units they're meant to hard counter appear rarer than intended? Should they gain some more universal functions, or be returned to the Warp Gate, to compensate?

Immortals ravage anything armored. Let thur be beta.

[Blazur]

Wow, there's an awful lot of debate about the merits of having the Thor be carried underneath a transport. Personally I'm ok with this mechanic for two reasons:

1) Realism: You ain't fitting that monstrosity inside a dropship. It's nearly as big as a factory. Having it mechanically attached underneath is a more plausible approach.

2) Balance: The Thor is a powerhouse which excels at air defense. Transporting one of these onto a small island means you've just amped the defense of that island considerably. Seeing that Thor in transit give you a target to prioritize.