Jim going good or bad?

[Pandonetho]

I agree, just look at Stalin. Many people argue that without him Hitler would have won, but look at what Stalin did to scrape up his army, he did terrible things with his 5 year plans, but in the end it made Russia very powerful.

[vIsitor]

Adding to what Wasted said; not to mention that breaking the Dominion would dissolve what little solidarity is left amongst the terrans, reducing them to a number of states, nations, pirates, militia, stray colonies and various organizations vying for control and waging petty skirmishes. Mengsk is, arguably, holding the whole thing together right now, as much of a bastard as he is.

I view him as a necessary evil.

And the Tarsonian Confederacy wasn't?

Sure, they were cold-blooded bastards who meddled with forces they really didn't comprehend, but they kept the sector powers from destroying eachother by ruling through intimidation.

When Mengsk destroyed the Confederacy, he effectively took up their mantle by using the Confederacy's own plans to use the Zerg to unite the sector for his own purposes.

While the Dominion does, indeed, provide some semblance of unity and security to the Koprulu Terrans, you can bet your bottom dollar that, should it fall, someone else will move to fill the power vacuum. The real questions are "when" and "who".

[Visions of Khas]

And the Tarsonian Confederacy wasn't?

Never said they weren't, but Mengsk is better at the job in every way.

Perhaps Raynor will come to realize this, and attempt to place Valerian on the thrown, should he prove to be adequately different from his father?

[Krikkitone]

And the Tarsonian Confederacy wasn't?

Sure, they were cold-blooded bastards who meddled with forces they really didn't comprehend, but they kept the sector powers from destroying eachother by ruling through intimidation.

When Mengsk destroyed the Confederacy, he effectively took up their mantle by using the Confederacy's own plans to use the Zerg to unite the sector for his own purposes.

While the Dominion does, indeed, provide some semblance of unity and security to the Koprulu Terrans, you can bet your bottom dollar that, should it fall, someone else will move to fill the power vacuum. The real questions are "when" and "who".

That is true, and given the way Blizzard works, When and Who won't change much for the average Terran.

If the relatively Free/Democratic 'good' Umojan Protectorate ends up becoming the Terran superpower, they will rapidly develop into an evil empire, just like the Confederacy and the Dominion were. Not so much from the necessity of history, but from the necessity of living in Blizzard's universe... no side can be solidly "good"....
From the standard of not committing mass genocide in vast numbers of innocent humans, Significant fractions of all three races are guilty.

Also, almost certainly the Dominion will fall, possibly in Wings of Liberty, but definitely by the end of Legacy of the Void.



Also good point by pure.wasted
Mensk + Raynor are opposites not in any moral way, but in "Calculated" v. "Impulsive"
Of course... Mensk had a Goal at the beginning of SC1, Raynor...he's been beat, he only has some people he wants to kill.. grander plans aren't there.

I think the key character development that will happen in WoL is Raynor getting a 'Goal'.. but it will be made up as he goes along one mission at a time.. by the end He'll have that goal... and it will be something terrible, but justified and 'necessary'

[ragsash]

It's not the millions of deaths on Tarsonis that angered Jim, it's the ONE 'death' of the person he cared about. He makes a pretty speech about "all the people [Kerrigan's] screwed over" after Fenix dies, but that's what it takes -- Fenix dying.

Jim is a good guy, and he means well, but he is very directly responsible for a LOT of things going wrong in the SC universe. That's what makes his story compelling.

I havent thought about it like that(got a big point there ).
But I always thought he did it in good will thinking mengsk was gonna be better then the dominion but he starts seeing mengsk turning in to that they all wanted to destroy, only seeking power for himself and dont care about the general masses, like he made them believe before that.

[Norfindel]

Raynor followed Mengsk until he discovered it was a crazy manipulative leader without moral. How does that makes him evil?

[phazonjunkie]

While the Dominion does, indeed, provide some semblance of unity and security to the Koprulu Terrans, you can bet your bottom dollar that, should it fall, someone else will move to fill the power vacuum. The real questions are "when" and "who".

Yeah, I highly doubt the dominion itself would simply collapse if Mengsk was taken down. Someone would simply come around and replace him. I think deep down, Raynor probably realizes this.

But when you think about it, Jim's beef has always been solely with Mengsk. I honestly think Jim could give 2 sh!ts, and half a rat's ass about Mengsk's empire.

[ragsash]

Raynor followed Mengsk until he discovered it was a crazy manipulative leader without moral. How does that makes him evil?

why do people keep insisting that im saying Jim is evul?
its like the third time when I call someone else evil!?

[pure.Wasted]

why do people keep insisting that im saying Jim is evul?
its like the third time when I call someone else evil!?

Nah, I think he was talking to me. I mentioned that Jim was responsible for a lot of bad things that happened. But apparently because he MEANT well, it doesn't really matter what his actions lead to.

Well, lemme tell you (not you, ragash :P) that Arcturus Mengsk ALSO meant well. He wanted to avenge the deaths of his family, and of millions of people on Korhal who weren't allowed to speak their minds. He wanted to dethrone the evil Confederacy that had for so long kept the Terran populations down through disenfranchisement.

Also, once again for emphasis: Jim didn't care about the millions that died on Tarsonis, it's the death of ONE person that got his panties in a bunch. The same thing happened again in Brood War. That does NOT mean he's a "bad guy" (neither is anyone else), it means that he has a very ego-centric understanding of the world. He's not a hero of the people, because he's not doing what he's doing FOR the people, he's doing it for himself.

When did he stand up to the Confederacy? When they screwed everyone over... or.... when they put him in jail? When did he stand up to Mengsk? When Mengsk had him kill Confederate troops? Nope! When Mengsk proposed killing millions on Tarsonis? Nope! Jimmy stood up to Mengsk when Sarah Kerrigan got in trouble.

Again, I'm not saying he's a BAD guy. I'm saying that he's a believable character who has often caused as much grief as good through the best of intentions. That is what makes his journey interesting.

[Norfindel]

Didn't Raynor said to Mengsk he was crazy to think about using the Psi Emitter on Tarsonis?