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Thread: I am going to Blizzcon

  1. #61

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    You've said that about writing your own SC fic so many times, Mislag. Yet you never finish one.

  2. #62

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    Not only indifferent, but even ignorant. IIRC in an interview, David Kim said less than 15% (or some other low percentage) of the SC2 players have actually completed the trilogy campaigns. While less than 60% have any progress on any of the campaigns. IIRC it was during a BlizzCon panel where Co-op took the centerstage of SC2 design for the first time.
    I also remember back when Wol was released, they found that most people didn't complete WoL's campaign because it was too long which is why the HotS campaign/mission length was shortened. Source
    Which is kinda funny considering how a lot of people cite WoL as having a "better" story than HotS (which I disagree on, in terms of narrative that is).
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Looking back, WoL had the best designed campaign mechanics and it's difficulty scaled very well. HotS was a Kerrigan A-move after mission 6. Then, LotV had very unique mechanics within maps and a better story, but was otherwise underwhelming at a campaign level.

    There's a very cool map, made in 2017 by a group of Chinese, that was simple enough yet very different from your regular RTS mission. Shame we never saw this level of potential explode within a monetized SC2 editor.


  4. #64

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    You've said that about writing your own SC fic so many times, Mislag. Yet you never finish one.
    Iím not surprised. SC is an awful fandom for anyone interested in serious stories. Tom Kratman novels are better written.

  5. #65

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    Looking back, WoL had the best designed campaign mechanics and it's difficulty scaled very well. HotS was a Kerrigan A-move after mission 6. Then, LotV had very unique mechanics within maps and a better story, but was otherwise underwhelming at a campaign level.
    I think they threw the "kitchen sink" into WoL in terms of gameplay mechanics, with HotS and LotV riffing off those.


    As to how the story was delivered/played out, I think it did get better as it went along. WoL was aimless and scattershot in its story (its size didn't help) for the most part until it finally got somewhere two-thirds of the way in only for it to abruptly end with the only thing of consequence... that was then quickly nullified in the next installment. HotS was more pedestrian and linear in its story presentation with a defined beginning, middle and end that flowed into each other and escalated. The problems with that story were mostly contextual, in that there was an incongruity with the scale of that story (a personal one/focused on the protagonists character development) and the larger scope of the story regarding Hybrids - the climax of Mengsk's death has no bearing outside of fulfilling a vendetta/side-quest of the main character. LotV carries on from HotS in that there's a defined beginning, middle and end and is contextually cohesive, having appropriate stakes and some sense of consequence/weight of consequence should the main characters fail (WoL had this too but it was just chucked into the end suddenly instead of naturally building to it, whilst HotS just plain didn't). The problem with LotV is that although being the climax of the trilogy, it is largely disconnected from the other two. It is somewhat oddly misplaced since you don't really need to be aware of what came before nor is it necessary, which is compounded by the fact that we did get WoL and HotS first sequentially. In essence, Sc2 isn't really a narrative trilogy since the only important thing on a narrative level that happens is contained wholly in LotV.
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  6. #66

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I’m not surprised. SC is an awful fandom for anyone interested in serious stories. Tom Kratman novels are better written.
    You also said your ideas contradicted at times.

  7. #67

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I think they threw the "kitchen sink" into WoL in terms of gameplay mechanics, with HotS and LotV riffing off those.


    As to how the story was delivered/played out, I think it did get better as it went along. WoL was aimless and scattershot in its story (its size didn't help) for the most part until it finally got somewhere two-thirds of the way in only for it to abruptly end with the only thing of consequence... that was then quickly nullified in the next installment. HotS was more pedestrian and linear in its story presentation with a defined beginning, middle and end that flowed into each other and escalated. The problems with that story were mostly contextual, in that there was an incongruity with the scale of that story (a personal one/focused on the protagonists character development) and the larger scope of the story regarding Hybrids - the climax of Mengsk's death has no bearing outside of fulfilling a vendetta/side-quest of the main character. LotV carries on from HotS in that there's a defined beginning, middle and end and is contextually cohesive, having appropriate stakes and some sense of consequence/weight of consequence should the main characters fail (WoL had this too but it was just chucked into the end suddenly instead of naturally building to it, whilst HotS just plain didn't). The problem with LotV is that although being the climax of the trilogy, it is largely disconnected from the other two. It is somewhat oddly misplaced since you don't really need to be aware of what came before nor is it necessary, which is compounded by the fact that we did get WoL and HotS first sequentially. In essence, Sc2 isn't really a narrative trilogy since the only important thing on a narrative level that happens is contained wholly in LotV.
    You could argue a similar problem afflicts SC1. Sandwich already went over that. Itís very rushed and generally poorly put together, poorly explained (even with the manual since it was clearly written for a different continuity), etc.

    I asked over on the C&C fandom and we pretty much agreed the story seems nonsensical when you take it at face value. They even agreed with me that the manual is far more cohesive than the game script. (They readily agree that C&Cís story isnít great, either.)

    This is probably more opinion-based, but I never liked how SC was character-driven (but not really since they behaved as the plot demanded) at the expense of the setting and world building. I like having characters because they are basically mandatory in storytelling, but in an RTS story I do not want their soap opera melodrama taking over the plot at the expense of the setting. RTS factions are characters in themselves, not toys for a writerís Gary Sues.

    Thatís probably why I like C&C lore better. The factions are the main characters. It feels grounded because politics and strategy are key parts of the story.

  8. #68

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Lets not forget the "4th" act, Nova's campaign had some interesting mechanics as well. But yeah it might be hard to come up with new ideas in SC3 if they don't significantly change the gameplay.

    Something I'd like someone to explore in a RTS single player campaign is the idea of a continuous shot while introducing new mechanics along the way and delivering a lengthy story. Basically, imagine sc but everything happens in one "mission" without any cuts. This is something common in other genre (half life for example) but not common in RTS. In fact, apart from Frost Punk and some space RTS I can't think of anything. I guess sim city and these kind of games could count as well to some extent but there's no explicit story. Anyways, it could be a way to innovate in SC3.

  9. #69

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Lets not forget the "4th" act, Nova's campaign had some interesting mechanics as well. But yeah it might be hard to come up with new ideas in SC3 if they don't significantly change the gameplay.

    Something I'd like someone to explore in a RTS single player campaign is the idea of a continuous shot while introducing new mechanics along the way and delivering a lengthy story. Basically, imagine sc but everything happens in one "mission" without any cuts. This is something common in other genre (half life for example) but not common in RTS. In fact, apart from Frost Punk and some space RTS I can't think of anything. I guess sim city and these kind of games could count as well to some extent but there's no explicit story. Anyways, it could be a way to innovate in SC3.
    I highly doubt there will be an SC3. If there is, then I expect it will be mobile shovelware that relies on copious microtransactions.

    You want a good RTS, then your only recourse is the indie scene and the remasters coming out. Blame evil capitalism for that, because for-profit companies have to chase fads like MOBAs while leaving traditional RTS to rot.

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