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Thread: I am going to Blizzcon

  1. #11

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    So you're saying that they need new IP?
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  2. #12
    The_Blade's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Maybe?

    I really do not care enough to play any new game they might develop. However, I guess Activision was right. They need "more" games in order to keep up with the growth a public company is expected to have anually.

    They seem to have hit another slow roll like the early 2000's where they only released WoW and its expansions. I don't even think they can cancel BlizzCon at this point to save money, because they've invested so much into controlling the esport scenes of their games. Most Blizzard execs looked half dead on camera due to sleep deprivation involved with the HK drama and the con organization.

    I expect they will start to fire developers now. Team 1 (Heroes and Starcraft) will probably be disintegrated. Team 5 (Hearthstone) will be reduced as Hearthstone seems to keep deteriorating and this new Dragons' expansion seems to be a clutch save at making the game "fun" again by borrowing a move from Valve (make everything OP). If a year or two pass without any improvement on their franchises they will sack the Classics team having finished the WarCraft III Frozen Throne Reforged and having no further games to remaster (D2 would just steal D4's thunder).
    Last edited by The_Blade; 11-04-2019 at 05:34 PM.

  3. #13

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    All the pessimism and misgivings aside, this game is looking utterly gorgeous. I am really digging the Renaissance inspiration with the art direction.

    Here's a set from the art book. The ones depicting Lilith, and the Creation of Sanctuary, I believe, are both by Brom: they lean towards Caravaggism in their execution -- stark lights and shadows punctuated by splashes of color, with the lighting dramatically placing prominence on the central figures.

    The other set of paintings, depicting the goatmen and cultists, are softer in their approach, more subdued in both light and color, an approach centered on sfumato. They are almost hazy and thereby richly atmospheric. These are punctuated by small bits of reflected light, lending them baroque air.
    Last edited by Visions of Khas; 11-04-2019 at 09:03 PM.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  4. #14

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    *snort* You say to the person making a historical reference, while providing none of your own. Lol.

    And no, I didn't mean "rudeness", I meant rudeness. Blizzard is not a tyrannical nation, it's a business run by the clueless (remember, California has its own culture bubble). But no matter who they are, don't demean yourself to offend them.
    Corporations are no better, gonna be honest, they are "little tyrannies" after all.

  5. #15

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    You forgot about Diablo Immortal, Blade. Despite the bad rep mobile games get in general, they are incredibly lucrative and can draw in (read on: prey on) the casual and non-traditional gamer. I can see this trend of them making more "simple" games and implementing skinner boxes (like these mobile games) that can be easily and overtly monetised via microtransactions in future, since it's a lower investment in terms of development on their end. Elements of this are already happening or being introduced in their existing games afterall. In some messed up kind of way, developing a new IP or creating large single experiences/"tentpole" games could be deemed too much of a risk for all the effort that's required.


    As to D4 and it being potentially MMO-lite, as long as the game has the option of being experienced in its entirety as a single-player from the get-go, I don't mind. However, it requiring subscription-based access would be a potential blocker for me though. Yeah, I know that in theory, it's supposed to support future development and that it's all in aid ultimately to a better end-user experience but the cynic in me can't help but see that as a signal/excuse that they're not releasing a complete game.


    As to the art, it's funny how just a bit of desaturation is evocative of what makes the Diablo universe what it is. I still remember the furor about the art back when D3 was in development and I suspect that people will now complain about D4 art being too desaturated. It never ends.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  6. #16
    The_Blade's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    All the pessimism and misgivings aside, this game is looking utterly gorgeous. I am really digging the Renaissance inspiration with the art direction.
    That gateway artwork with the statues of demons and angels is so well done. The lighting difference between left and right is so subtle, but damn looks amazing. I can totally get the Renaissance feeling more than the heavy goth aesthetics they imply are more prevalent (for now).

    The sense of scale on the gameplay trailer dungeons is also quite impressive. This is somewhere I felt Diablo 3 always failed and to an extent Path of Exile did as well. D3 always had the SC2 background feel to it. You were at the top of an odd plateau or weird looking building with a cave, fall, void, buildings, behind you.

    Also, the ability to seamlessly navigate through the levels of a dungeon gives D4 tremendous potential. At it's best I would love to see a player see a "friend" through the gaps and holes of a Dungeon and later catch up with them and realize how deep you are into this hellhole as perhaps you saw only the glimmer of torches from far away at the start of the dungeon. How fantastic it would be to feel "powerless" as you try and break through a wall of mobs while seeing the effects and projectiles of a critical fight 3 levels below through a "courtyard" or a "sinkhole with no perceivable depth with some kind of spiral staircase on it".

    Dividing parties as a feature would also be crazy rich in creative design. Solve puzzles, reach new areas within a dungeon, build contraptions, burn down a bridge and fight the mobs later when you reach a deeper level, freeze a lake, aggro mobs away from an npc, etc. If they implement these kind of elements from D&D That would be the most glorious form of RPG design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    You forgot about Diablo Immortal, Blade. Despite the bad rep mobile games get in general, they are incredibly lucrative and can draw in (read on: prey on) the casual and non-traditional gamer. I can see this trend of them making more "simple" games and implementing skinner boxes (like these mobile games) that can be easily and overtly monetised via microtransactions in future, since it's a lower investment in terms of development on their end. Elements of this are already happening or being introduced in their existing games afterall. In some messed up kind of way, developing a new IP or creating large single experiences/"tentpole" games could be deemed too much of a risk for all the effort that's required.
    Right, I totally forgot DI. Sorry, thought it had crumbled after problems in development between Blizzard and NetEase surged after a very odd copycat was seen launch in China with the usual NetEase engine last year. Guess not.

    Mobile is very lucrative indeed. However, it's a hit and miss for most developers. Blizzard has the advantage of having millions of assets available to reskin games. I just don't think they have either the experience or talent needed for mobile game design, yet. Initially they wanted NetEase to deal with all that jazz, but now they might have figured out that they do have to design the game themselves to improve monetization. As well, they need some form of mindless mainstream followers to promote this type of games and make them popular. Blizzard fans will always defend the company, but they are among the toughest crowds to please too. Demographically, ages 15 to 40 is where 80% of the fans should be at. Blizzard has been silent towards trends which are quite important for mobile development the latest two being battle royale games and autochess games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    As to D4 and it being potentially MMO-lite, as long as the game has the option of being experienced in its entirety as a single-player from the get-go, I don't mind. However, it requiring subscription-based access would be a potential blocker for me though. Yeah, I know that in theory, it's supposed to support future development and that it's all in aid ultimately to a better end-user experience but the cynic in me can't help but see that as a signal/excuse that they're not releasing a complete game.
    The main problem comes from bringing replayability into the game and designing the end game as a whole. I fear in the long run solo play will become quite planar as design choices are made to benefit the greater player pool, which should be the social one through MMO elements like guilds, areas, pvp and competitive carrots. Think of D3 and PoE and then ask yourself how many times you can play the story mode without getting tired of the format. AND THEN think how many times you can pull a group of friends through the same format. For me the best alternative would be to create a strict solo game mode and add competitive elements to it, but that means a complete divorce from the MMO-lite features. So far, nothing is final, but the general direction of design is to have a few barriers within the world as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    As to the art, it's funny how just a bit of desaturation is evocative of what makes the Diablo universe what it is. I still remember the furor about the art back when D3 was in development and I suspect that people will now complain about D4 art being too desaturated. It never ends.
    IIRC a lot of people hated the first gameplay trailer from D3 for having WarCraft III art. I see no such division atm. There just praise everywhere for most of the D4 content. The most negative threads I've seen are from people defending D3 from the D4 and D2 crowds.

    I've also seen people comment that they want the UI effects reduced even more so that a more authentic immersion can be achieved.

  7. #17

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    All the pessimism and misgivings aside, this game is looking utterly gorgeous.
    As to the art, it's funny how just a bit of desaturation is evocative of what makes the Diablo universe what it is. I still remember the furor about the art back when D3 was in development and I suspect that people will now complain about D4 art being too desaturated. It never ends.
    In-game, what really got me personally were 2 scenes in particular that are not presented in that album VoK linked. The first one was the big snake in the swamp and the other one was in a dark cave with some sort of maggot/flesh thing in the background. Desaturation can naturally lead to blandness on the long term and you have to be more creative to make an exciting piece. If all I saw were typical fantasy landscapes with a darker tone, I wouldn't be too interested. But these sort of attention grabbing background elements(snake/flesh thing) are what really keeps things fresh. D3 was really good at this kind of extra touch so I'm glad it won't be lost in D4.

    1-The game will be in development for at least 3-5 more years and the general game design will suffer.

    Just like D3, D4 will be finished in a time frame close to a decade. I estimate that they have been working on D4 for at least 4 years now,
    That's the problem with Blizzard. Maybe if their project management skill weren't this shitty, they wouldn't have to rely on predatory practices to milk their franchises. They could just release games faster (though lets be honest, they'd still hit us with micro-transactions, always online MMO DRM crap, etc). Seriously though, it shouldn't take 10 years for a veteran AAA developer to make a top down hack&slash with barely any innovation that uses the same engine as the past game (with a few upgrades). "yeah but sandwich, they need that time to bring the game up to this level of polished quality". Nah, don't give me that crap. Dark Souls 3 was made in around 3 years. Mario Odyssey was made in around 4 years, etc etc etc. There are a lot of games out there that are objectively so much more polished that anything Blizzard ever made and were made in 1/3 of the time. At some point, when you look at what others are doing better and faster than you, you have to ask yourself if your current practices are really working out for the best.


    btw, the SC team wants to do SC3. Not really much of a news but that's the only thing we got for our 'beloved' franchise out of blizzcon this year

    pcgamer.com/it-sure-sounds-like-starcraft-2s-devs-would-like-to-make-starcraft-3/
    Last edited by sandwich_bird; 11-05-2019 at 11:31 AM.

  8. #18

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    I'm so sad. I don't want a SC3, but I also don't want Starcraft to die.

    I want the ground to lie fallow for a few years while the people who actually know what they're doing create the worldbuilding necessary to build a franchise upon. Actually, y'know what? That's the problem with lots of media. People continually want to make sequels, but you can't make a sequel without thinking out the lore, character choices, and previous decisions that have been made. To make any good product, one must put at least three times the thought into it than is obvious to users. If SC had a coherent, strong universe with lots of emphasis placed on different factions within the races, it would be far easier to actually produce a competent story/have new ideas for gameplay for it.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  9. #19

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    Mobile is very lucrative indeed. However, it's a hit and miss for most developers. Blizzard has the advantage of having millions of assets available to reskin games. I just don't think they have either the experience or talent needed for mobile game design, yet. Initially they wanted NetEase to deal with all that jazz, but now they might have figured out that they do have to design the game themselves to improve monetization. As well, they need some form of mindless mainstream followers to promote this type of games and make them popular. Blizzard fans will always defend the company, but they are among the toughest crowds to please too. Demographically, ages 15 to 40 is where 80% of the fans should be at. Blizzard has been silent towards trends which are quite important for mobile development the latest two being battle royale games and autochess games.
    I don't think it will do well in the "Western" market. It seems catered to the Chinese market and since they have brand recognition of Blizzard over there, I think it will do well for them even if it does turn out to be a shitty first-attempt mobile game. Besides, both "quality" and "mobile game" aren't usually considered to be going hand-in-hand, so having a Blizzard created game dedicated to mobile could be a potential novelty/change in that general expectation of such games.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    The main problem comes from bringing replayability into the game and designing the end game as a whole. I fear in the long run solo play will become quite planar as design choices are made to benefit the greater player pool, which should be the social one through MMO elements like guilds, areas, pvp and competitive carrots. Think of D3 and PoE and then ask yourself how many times you can play the story mode without getting tired of the format. AND THEN think how many times you can pull a group of friends through the same format. For me the best alternative would be to create a strict solo game mode and add competitive elements to it, but that means a complete divorce from the MMO-lite features. So far, nothing is final, but the general direction of design is to have a few barriers within the world as possible.
    As long as the multi-player aspects don't become a gate or limiter for single-player, it shouldn't matter. Ok sure, there maybe some big events/bosses that need multiple players to tackle, but that shouldn't be something that's forced onto someone who only wants to play single-player nor should it be made necessary to partake in. If someone was forced to engage in these multiplayer aspects to get a crucial bit of lore or story progression or even an item, then it'd be a problem.

    D3 singleplayer felt more restricted than D2 singleplayer (and even D1 to an extent) due to it's heavily scripted and smaller, linked and specially curated maps/areas. D4 will do well by having a less scripted and plot-controlled singleplayer experience (like in D2 and D1).


    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I'm so sad. I don't want a SC3, but I also don't want Starcraft to die.
    Starcraft's already dead in terms of lore/story after Sc2. There's nothing really going for it except the nostalgia of bringing back old things and redoing them again.

    Hell, I didn't even want Sc2 the first time! Now that we have it, I kinda wish Starcraft had died.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Actually, y'know what? That's the problem with lots of media. People continually want to make sequels, but you can't make a sequel without thinking out the lore, character choices, and previous decisions that have been made. To make any good product, one must put at least three times the thought into it than is obvious to users. If SC had a coherent, strong universe with lots of emphasis placed on different factions within the races, it would be far easier to actually produce a competent story/have new ideas for gameplay for it.
    Good, good! I can feel your sequelitis. It gives you focus. It makes you stronger.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  10. #20

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    They're releasing concept art of the Evils, and Andariel looks amazing. Such a better design than her S&M model from D2. She looks like she actually lives up to the Maiden of Anguish moniker.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

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