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Thread: I am going to Blizzcon

  1. #31

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    I just replayed classic WC3 (fuck reforge) up to the blood elf/human expansion campaign and honestly, I have to agree. It's just not well written. It's good enough to support the gameplay but doesn't stand on it's own. I don't give a crap about the world building, sense of scale and what not. These are subjective preferences. But Arthas character progression... that's just bad writing. And he's not even the worst. Tyrande and Malfurion pull out some of the worst nonsensical bi-polar crap I've seen.
    I used to think that Arthas' progression was the best part of the WC3 writing, but now WC3 doesn't even have that.

    What do you think of the SC1 story? How does it compare to WC3?

  2. #32

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Shut up, Wesley. I mean, Mislag.

    Honestly, the only way Starcraft's story could come back from the dead is if there is one person with a true vision to create a world from it. That, and rendering SC2 non-canon.
    I admire your honesty in telling me to shutup. For a moment I was ready to fire back in anger, but my depression won over.

    Let me tell you straight. The only Starcraft lore I found remotely enjoyable was the Confederacy, Overmind, and Conclave. Everything else is typical Blizzard zero effort stuff.

    This is a pathological obsession for me. It's gotten so much worse after Starcraft lore fans have consistently treated me like garbage for the past several years when I tried to get back into Starcraft. Non-fans have told me numerous times to give up on Starcraft because it is radioactive (their words, not mine) and I'm better off writing an original work. My depression over this is interfering with my job performance.

  3. #33

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I used to think that Arthas' progression was the best part of the WC3 writing, but now WC3 doesn't even have that.

    What do you think of the SC1 story? How does it compare to WC3?
    Though I do find it more enjoyable, Sc1 story suffer from similar problems to that of wc3. Namely, pacing issues and too much random unnecessary or poorly explained plot points. Illidan for example in wc3 and Kerrigan infestation. These are unnecessary random distractions that would work better in side quests (which wasn't a thing in those games). As for the pacing issues, it can be seen in how unsmoothly character progression are shown (Arthas abruptly becomes a bad guy, Raynor & Kerrigan become a couple in like 4 lines of dialogue, etc)

    Otherwise, I also find Sc1 hard to follow unless you're already familiar with everything. This is due to the requirement of having to read the manual and also the way the story is delivered (mission briefings and a few paragraphs here and there). You are the hero so what's happening around you should be made very clear. Sc1 should be simple: "bad aliens come, good aliens join humans to kill bad aliens." But that is not the case. There's too much gap of information and characters seem to pop out of nowhere.

    On the other hand, Wc3 is weird: "the good guys must gtfo from the newly arrived bad guys to join forces on a distant land so that they can kill badder bad guys. " Ironically, it's easier to follow along because you strictly follow the hero's perspective and you see it moment to moment with few gaps in-between. This helps mask how shitty the overall story really is. That could explain part of why you and I both used to think that the Arthas story was good. Your suspension of disbelief and your critical mind turns off when the narration guides you well. You go on autopilot.

    These mechanics aside though, there's no debate, wc3 plot is a lot worse than Sc1 if you start analysing. Both are a mashup of random cool ideas (as is the blizzard way). The difference is that Wc3 has a lot more ideas.. too much of them and they connect even more poorly than in Sc1.

  4. #34

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Though I do find it more enjoyable, Sc1 story suffer from similar problems to that of wc3. Namely, pacing issues and too much random unnecessary or poorly explained plot points. Illidan for example in wc3 and Kerrigan infestation. These are unnecessary random distractions that would work better in side quests (which wasn't a thing in those games). As for the pacing issues, it can be seen in how unsmoothly character progression are shown (Arthas abruptly becomes a bad guy, Raynor & Kerrigan become a couple in like 4 lines of dialogue, etc)
    I'm glad we can civilly discuss this. You have no idea how starved I've been of this.

    According to the official Starcraft lore, Raynor and Kerry never became a couple until SC2. Raynor "realized" that he loved her after BW, and that's why he tried to save her in WoL rather than stop her reign of terror.

    The Kerrigan infestation was added because the writers thought the zerg were too boring, according to an interview. So they added infested Kerrigan and rewrote the story around her. This stole the spotlight from the zerg and contributed to their decay as villains later when Kerry took over completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Otherwise, I also find Sc1 hard to follow unless you're already familiar with everything. This is due to the requirement of having to read the manual and also the way the story is delivered (mission briefings and a few paragraphs here and there). You are the hero so what's happening around you should be made very clear. Sc1 should be simple: "bad aliens come, good aliens join humans to kill bad aliens." But that is not the case. There's too much gap of information and characters seem to pop out of nowhere.
    The zerg and protoss campaigns suffer the most from this. Not only do you need familiarity with the manual, but there are inconsistencies between the game script and the manual since they seem to have been written by different writers based on different drafts of the plot.

    I totally agree that the plot should have been a simple "humans and good aliens team up to fight bad aliens," rather than shoehorn the zerg/protoss war into the second half of the game. This made the presence of the terrans in the second half superfluous despite being the third side in the game!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    On the other hand, Wc3 is weird: "the good guys must gtfo from the newly arrived bad guys to join forces on a distant land so that they can kill badder bad guys. " Ironically, it's easier to follow along because you strictly follow the hero's perspective and you see it moment to moment with few gaps in-between. This helps mask how shitty the overall story really is. That could explain part of why you and I both used to think that the Arthas story was good. Your suspension of disbelief and your critical mind turns off when the narration guides you well. You go on autopilot.
    That's a good way to put it. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    These mechanics aside though, there's no debate, wc3 plot is a lot worse than Sc1 if you start analysing. Both are a mashup of random cool ideas (as is the blizzard way). The difference is that Wc3 has a lot more ideas.. too much of them and they connect even more poorly than in Sc1.
    "Mashup of random cool ideas" is a great way to put it. Thank you.




    It's probably pointless to share, but here's one possibility how I think Starcraft 1's plot should have gone:

    Terran campaign:

    Magistrate defends Mar Sara against aliens and rebels. Lots of drama.

    The UED is present in the sector too, having perceived the imperialistic Confederacy as a threat to their own power. After the aliens arrived, they've been forced to re-evaluate their priorities.

    Tassadar shows up on Mar Sara and offers an alliance of convenience as a representative of the koprulu sympathizers faction in the protoss expedition, which the Magistrate takes in desperation. Duke is forced off the planet and the Mar Sara Militia reclaims control. Magistrate investigates Confederate installations and discovers that Project Bellwood/Cerberus was experimenting with breeding enthralled zerg and luring them with psi-emitters. It turns out that the reason Chau Sara was so heavily infested was because the Confederacy had artificially bred zerg in overwhelming numbers and lost control of them.

    The Sons of Korhal have stolen the research and replicated it. They intend to lure the enthralled zerg to heavily populated planets in order to destabilize the colonial governments and take over, while using propaganda to claim the zerg are a Confederate experiment gone wrong. Raynor, who was rescued and recruited from jail, shares this information with the Magistrate through a series of private communications.

    Tassadar explains this strategy is suicidal as the destabilization would make it much easier for the zerg to invade. At that point Tassadar would no longer be able to provide sufficient justification to the Conclave to avoid glassing planets, as up to this point he was banking on the terrans' surprising resilience, and thus would have to openly rebel against his orders.

    Tassadar and Magistrate team up to stop the Sons of Korhal. The climax is a vicious battle. The Sons of Korhal forces in the Tarsonian system are broken and scattered. Tassadar sets up gates to various random dangerous locations across the galaxy and lures the enthralled using psi-emitters of his own based on the terran's research.

    Tassadar warns that the Conclave will eventually discover his disloyalty. The Magistrate learns from the research data that the zerg forces the Confederacy studied were a scouting force. It is only a matter of time before the true invasion arrives, and they won't fall for the psi-emitter.

    Magistrate receives a message from the Umojan Protectorate, offering an alliance.

    And that's all I can imagine for the moment.

  5. #35

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Though I do find it more enjoyable, Sc1 story suffer from similar problems to that of wc3. Namely, pacing issues and too much random unnecessary or poorly explained plot points. Illidan for example in wc3 and Kerrigan infestation. These are unnecessary random distractions that would work better in side quests (which wasn't a thing in those games). As for the pacing issues, it can be seen in how unsmoothly character progression are shown (Arthas abruptly becomes a bad guy, Raynor & Kerrigan become a couple in like 4 lines of dialogue, etc)

    Otherwise, I also find Sc1 hard to follow unless you're already familiar with everything. This is due to the requirement of having to read the manual and also the way the story is delivered (mission briefings and a few paragraphs here and there). You are the hero so what's happening around you should be made very clear. Sc1 should be simple: "bad aliens come, good aliens join humans to kill bad aliens." But that is not the case. There's too much gap of information and characters seem to pop out of nowhere.

    On the other hand, Wc3 is weird: "the good guys must gtfo from the newly arrived bad guys to join forces on a distant land so that they can kill badder bad guys. " Ironically, it's easier to follow along because you strictly follow the hero's perspective and you see it moment to moment with few gaps in-between. This helps mask how shitty the overall story really is. That could explain part of why you and I both used to think that the Arthas story was good. Your suspension of disbelief and your critical mind turns off when the narration guides you well. You go on autopilot.

    These mechanics aside though, there's no debate, wc3 plot is a lot worse than Sc1 if you start analysing. Both are a mashup of random cool ideas (as is the blizzard way). The difference is that Wc3 has a lot more ideas.. too much of them and they connect even more poorly than in Sc1.
    Could you go into more detail about your criticism of Starcraft 1? I'm really starved for detailed criticism of its plotting... since there isn't any that I could find with Google. Pretty much everybody except us praises it as gospel.

  6. #36
    The_Blade's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    LoL there's quite a bit of activity here.

    Even after not playing a single minute of WoW, I've tried to follow a little on the Warcraft universe from time to time. I have to agree with Sandwich. Warcraft is a universe that grows a new city if it's convenient for the heroes' story. While I find bites and pieces of the universe interesting enough, like the Jaina storyline or the Warcraft movie (which was decent). They can't force me to believe that the retcon of Admiral Proudmore was the original reason for his death back in W3.

    I guess what makes Starcraft great as a story is it's universe rather than it's characters much like Halo or The Expanse. Honestly it's also one of the few RTS with a serious enough story and enough mechanics to execute it correctly to attract fans. C&C, Dawn of War, Supreme Commander and Age of Mythology all went too tone heavy for any merit on serious storytelling. It earned very little hardcore lore fans as a franchise, but is the most popular rts out there. Casual players will praise it as much as a casual tv viewer will praise random series on any streaming service. Their attention span is to short to worry about the details or the inconsistencies.
    Last edited by The_Blade; 02-21-2020 at 08:05 PM.

  7. #37

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Holy heck, I had no idea this forum was back again! Thought it was gone for good the last time it went down.

    I see that Mislag is still at it. Gotta give the guy some credit for keeping up with it for so long.

    What Sandwich said: "Your suspension of disbelief and your critical mind turns off when the narration guides you well" sums it up pretty well. Every story and narrative ever created can be broken down into being "really" nothing more than a conceit of the author to deliver a message, tone, perspective or whatever. Tropes and plotting are necessary to do that but they're not good or bad on their own either. A narrative is often judged good or bad on the subjective perspective/bias of what one arbitrarily figures to be more important when it really should be about whether or not it's effective in evoking the themes it puts forth. At the end of the day, it's about willing suspension of disbelief. Sure, you may have a fridge moment later on that will dispel the magic of it and make you wonder why you liked it in the first place but if one is able to invest themselves enough into a fictional world to go along for the ride in that moment of experiencing it, I think the narrative has done its job well.

    It's funny though when it comes to the older RTS games that attempted to tell stories, that most of the actual narrative in the game was often less thematically rich and interesting than the backstory/fluff built up around it (usually in the form of a manual or a separate story). Homeworld is one of those though not without reason but I remember this one particular cool RTS game called Battle Realms. It was made from some ex-Westwood studios guys which used East Asian fantasy as its inspiration. It had this dense backstory to explain the current state of the warring clans which could only be found online (like Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - which isn't a RTS nor has an in-game narrative) and the manual had elaborate backgrounds for even the basic units (like Starcraft 1) that suckered me into that world, only for the actual in-game story to be about some generic hero guy raising his clan above this other diametrically opposed clan and some hidden and vaguely ancient powerful evil that was given no actual context both in the backstory or in the game. The game was aesthetically pleasing at the time, unique and extremely difficult but the in-game story was lacking very much in the similar way Misla feels about Starcraft1.

    I think the most engaging RTS game story I've come across that hasn't got/doesn't rely on a manual or some other thing to prop it up yet the story holds itself up well on its own would be World in Conflict. I'd include Sacrifice (written by James Phinney - co-writer of Starcraft 1) as well but it does have a manual, though it isn't necessary to follow/get the story or the world since it's mostly fluff.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  8. #38

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Could you go into more detail about your criticism of Starcraft 1? I'm really starved for detailed criticism of its plotting... since there isn't any that I could find with Google. Pretty much everybody except us praises it as gospel.
    Huhh I might repeat a bit my original points. Namely: pacing, lack of explanations, too many distracting and poorly explained ideas in too little time. But, if it's going to bring you joy, I can share unorganized random thoughts that I have at the moment:

    -In my opinion, the campaign should be a self-sufficient experience that a user should be able to fully understand and enjoy without having to go through supplementary materials. You need to have read the manual to understand Starcraft's story. Hence, if it is to be mandatory, then, at the very least, within the experience of the game, it should tell you to pause and go read. Kinda like the prompt you get if you try to play the acts in a random order. Otherwise it's just bad UX. But, since they didn't do it, it is to be assumed that the manual is meant to be OPTIONAL. As so, it is fair to critic the experience as such.

    -The first few missions of the Terran campaign, you have no clue wtf is happening. You're some kind of law enforcement leader and there's some random alien that appeared out of nowhere to blow up planets. And then randomly you see the zergs in the mission where you first join Raynor. There's 0 introduction to the zerg at that point. No one says anything when you kill the first zergling. All you know as a player is what you guess: "insect/lizard like, attacks my stuff.. local wild life? part of the alien destruction fleet?". Guessing in itself is not a bad thing. The problem is that it's not presented as a mystery you must solve. Or anyways, I think there was an attempt at trying to display it as an intrigue but the narration didn't set it up well at all. This is where the pacing issues come in. I get like 4 lines in a pre-briefing slide that tell me there's some alien blowing up planets. Maybe I also connected the dots that the intro video is exactly that (but probably not. I remember as a kid I didn't anyways). Then you're off supposedly relocating refugees that are nowhere to be found in the actual mission. And I get attacked by these random weird reptilian dog-looking creatures (zerglings)... okay? No setup whatsoever of anything. This is very shitty storytelling.

    -Still within the Terran campaign, you're eventually dumped some lore by Mengsk that the zerg are actually a weapon of your former asshole boss. Okay? This is something that annoys me about Blizzard writing in general. You're thrown into a guessing game, trying to piece out what is happening and then they dump you a chapter of lore exposition. Faction X did Y because of Z, blah blah blah. It's so disgustingly unnatural. It doesn't come out as a nice revelation. It's kinda like being being force fed a meal-sized snack before noon because you skipped breakfast. To be fair, it's not that bad in the Terrain Campaign but in the Protoss campaign.... Jesus, that shit is all over the place. Conclave, dark templars, politics. there's no time to breath, just make sure you meet your calorie requirements for the day and eat my fucking triple layer lore sandwich. The only, ONLY, reason why it is palatable, is because the voice actors are amazing and the lines sound pretty cool too.

    -Overall though, I don't really have anything against the actual plot of the Terran campaign. In fact, I think it's pretty cool. That is not the case for the Zerg campaign... Now, on top of suffering from the things I keep repeating, it brings fundamental story issues. First of which is a lack of direction. This campaign should be the time when the zerg are exposed and their goals/plans are revealed. Why are they here? Who are they really? What are they after? Yeah... about that? You'll only learn in the last few missions when the Overmind suddenly and conveniently figures out how to get to Aiur. otherwise, you're just dicking around on a side quest to defend your boss' pet project. That is the whole story. You defend and help the side gig then papa overmind wake up from his mid-life crisis and send you to Aiur. How about instead you talk about the determinant or ANYTHING of interest?

    -Kerrigan... I have 0 issue with her as a concept but I find her juvenile attitude stupid. I could justify it in hundreds of ways, at the end, I just don't like the personality they gave her. Maybe it's a pacing thing again. She's born, she says she only wish to obey the overmind. Then she immediately becomes a brat. I don't know, if there was some kind of progression then maybe it could have been interesting. You know, something like: starts off as this obedient minion. Then slowly realize her power which in turns bring her more confidence. Then she slowly understands how she's different from the other cerebrates and how she's intrinsically given more liberty. THEN she becomes a confrontational brat. I guess that was the plan Blizzard had but... again, pacing \_(ツ)_/ I do like the idea of protecting the cocoon and unveiling her. That is cool though I do find it lame that it's not part of a bigger quest as I said. Kerrigan should simply have been the key to finding Aiur. I don't want to get into all the 4 millions arguments we had on this but.. if you change the story so that the overmind comes to get Kerrigan so that she's able to find Aiur, that solves all the core issues I have with the zerg campaign plot. Once that's done, you'd just have to improve the storytelling aspect and you'd end up with a much stronger experience.

    -Finally the Protoss campaign. Suffers from my usual annoyances, massively in some cases.. But, the plot idea is cool. Just the execution is horrible and so so rushed. Not much more to say about this...That whole good energy vs dark energy shit is a bit too convenient to my taste but, with better pacing, it could have been sold well.


    How's that for some SC1 hate? I can bitch about the gameplay and mission design too lol. Don't get me wrong though, I like it. I love it. Yet I am critical of it. Almost anything can be made better.

    What Sandwich said: "Your suspension of disbelief and your critical mind turns off when the narration guides you well" sums it up pretty well. Every story and narrative ever created can be broken down into being "really" nothing more than a conceit of the author to deliver a message, tone, perspective or whatever. Tropes and plotting are necessary to do that but they're not good or bad on their own either. A narrative is often judged good or bad on the subjective perspective/bias of what one arbitrarily figures to be more important when it really should be about whether or not it's effective in evoking the themes it puts forth. At the end of the day, it's about willing suspension of disbelief. Sure, you may have a fridge moment later on that will dispel the magic of it and make you wonder why you liked it in the first place but if one is able to invest themselves enough into a fictional world to go along for the ride in that moment of experiencing it, I think the narrative has done its job well.
    Indeed. Misla, I see that you're usually quick to point plot inconsistencies and such and use that as justification for why the story is bad. That can indeed be the case and it's fun to ramble about but, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how you feel about it. A good writer I think is more of a psychologist or a marketer than a historian. Your main job is to construct an experience, not to write a logical fact book. Or anyways, that fact book is only as interesting as how it works towards increasing the enjoyment of the experience.

  9. #39

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    I guess what makes Starcraft great as a story is it's universe rather than it's characters much like Halo or The Expanse. Honestly it's also one of the few RTS with a serious enough story and enough mechanics to execute it correctly to attract fans. C&C, Dawn of War, Supreme Commander and Age of Mythology all went too tone heavy for any merit on serious storytelling. It earned very little hardcore lore fans as a franchise, but is the most popular rts out there. Casual players will praise it as much as a casual tv viewer will praise random series on any streaming service. Their attention span is to short to worry about the details or the inconsistencies.
    The universe doesn't make it great at all in my experience. The overwhelming majority of fanfiction is either Raynor/Kerry romance or the oddly-specific recurring formula of a self-insert fic in which the author is teleported to a generic fantasy genre planet with control over a zerg brood.

    I've tried multiple times on various scifi fanfiction sites to drumup interest and almost nobody's interested in the Starcraft universe. What few people do showup are either unable to discuss anything besides Raynor/Kerry melodrama or share my frustration that Starcraft has shallow world building but are unable to invest effort beyond agreeing with my general complaints because they don't find Starcraft interesting enough to invest in.

    At the end of the day, Starcraft simply doesn't have that many people interested in the story, the characters, or the world building because Blizzard doesn't put the effort in. They have the biggest budget in the RTS genre and thus the most detailed story of any RTS game, but because its all style and no substance it doesn't attract as many people as it could have. The poor plotting of SC2 also caused a lot of burnout in fans, similar to the final season of GOT.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    How's that for some SC1 hate? I can bitch about the gameplay and mission design too lol. Don't get me wrong though, I like it. I love it. Yet I am critical of it. Almost anything can be made better.
    You can like something and still recognize it has flaws. A lot of people can't do that. They perceive criticizing something they like as an attack on their person.

    What grinds my gears dealing with Starcraft fandom is that most people put SC1 on a pedestal and treat it as a paragon of storytelling, when you've just shown that it's clearly not. It has interesting ideas here and there, sure, but it's a mess due to the author's clear inexperience.

    The whole reason I demand better is because I love the Starcraft IP's potential. Meanwhile, fanboys call my love "twisted" because I criticize SC's flaws and don't just mindlessly consume whatever Blizzard craps out.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Indeed. Misla, I see that you're usually quick to point plot inconsistencies and such and use that as justification for why the story is bad. That can indeed be the case and it's fun to ramble about but, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how you feel about it. A good writer I think is more of a psychologist or a marketer than a historian. Your main job is to construct an experience, not to write a logical fact book. Or anyways, that fact book is only as interesting as how it works towards increasing the enjoyment of the experience.
    I don't disagree, but I feel that the logic behind the experience still needs to be well constructed or the experience will eventually fall apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    -The first few missions of the Terran campaign, you have no clue wtf is happening. You're some kind of law enforcement leader and there's some random alien that appeared out of nowhere to blow up planets. And then randomly you see the zergs in the mission where you first join Raynor. There's 0 introduction to the zerg at that point. No one says anything when you kill the first zergling. All you know as a player is what you guess: "insect/lizard like, attacks my stuff.. local wild life? part of the alien destruction fleet?". Guessing in itself is not a bad thing. The problem is that it's not presented as a mystery you must solve. Or anyways, I think there was an attempt at trying to display it as an intrigue but the narration didn't set it up well at all. This is where the pacing issues come in. I get like 4 lines in a pre-briefing slide that tell me there's some alien blowing up planets. Maybe I also connected the dots that the intro video is exactly that (but probably not. I remember as a kid I didn't anyways). Then you're off supposedly relocating refugees that are nowhere to be found in the actual mission. And I get attacked by these random weird reptilian dog-looking creatures (zerglings)... okay? No setup whatsoever of anything. This is very shitty storytelling.

    -Still within the Terran campaign, you're eventually dumped some lore by Mengsk that the zerg are actually a weapon of your former asshole boss. Okay? This is something that annoys me about Blizzard writing in general. You're thrown into a guessing game, trying to piece out what is happening and then they dump you a chapter of lore exposition. Faction X did Y because of Z, blah blah blah. It's so disgustingly unnatural. It doesn't come out as a nice revelation. It's kinda like being being force fed a meal-sized snack before noon because you skipped breakfast. To be fair, it's not that bad in the Terrain Campaign but in the Protoss campaign.... Jesus, that shit is all over the place. Conclave, dark templars, politics. there's no time to breath, just make sure you meet your calorie requirements for the day and eat my fucking triple layer lore sandwich. The only, ONLY, reason why it is palatable, is because the voice actors are amazing and the lines sound pretty cool too.
    Part of this could be attributed to the limitations of the time... but then Blizzard could have worked within the limitations rather than forcing them to their breaking point.

    As I said before, I think it would have been better with a simpler story where the Magistrate actually investigates this stuff and deals with it as it comes up. Same for the other campaigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    -Overall though, I don't really have anything against the actual plot of the Terran campaign. In fact, I think it's pretty cool. That is not the case for the Zerg campaign... Now, on top of suffering from the things I keep repeating, it brings fundamental story issues. First of which is a lack of direction. This campaign should be the time when the zerg are exposed and their goals/plans are revealed. Why are they here? Who are they really? What are they after? Yeah... about that? You'll only learn in the last few missions when the Overmind suddenly and conveniently figures out how to get to Aiur. otherwise, you're just dicking around on a side quest to defend your boss' pet project. That is the whole story. You defend and help the side gig then papa overmind wake up from his mid-life crisis and send you to Aiur. How about instead you talk about the determinant or ANYTHING of interest?

    -Kerrigan... I have 0 issue with her as a concept but I find her juvenile attitude stupid. I could justify it in hundreds of ways, at the end, I just don't like the personality they gave her. Maybe it's a pacing thing again. She's born, she says she only wish to obey the overmind. Then she immediately becomes a brat. I don't know, if there was some kind of progression then maybe it could have been interesting. You know, something like: starts off as this obedient minion. Then slowly realize her power which in turns bring her more confidence. Then she slowly understands how she's different from the other cerebrates and how she's intrinsically given more liberty. THEN she becomes a confrontational brat. I guess that was the plan Blizzard had but... again, pacing \_(ツ)_/ I do like the idea of protecting the cocoon and unveiling her. That is cool though I do find it lame that it's not part of a bigger quest as I said. Kerrigan should simply have been the key to finding Aiur. I don't want to get into all the 4 millions arguments we had on this but.. if you change the story so that the overmind comes to get Kerrigan so that she's able to find Aiur, that solves all the core issues I have with the zerg campaign plot. Once that's done, you'd just have to improve the storytelling aspect and you'd end up with a much stronger experience.
    I don't think Kerry ever need to be added. Again, she was only added because Blizzard thought the zerg were too boring unless they were playing second fiddle to terrans. Why not hire someone who actually liked them as they were to write their plot?

    The whole Aiur invasion thing is completely unnecessary and takes away attention from the previously established Terran space fiasco. As you said, it's too much stuff forced into too tiny a space.

    I think the zerg campaign would have been much better if it was about the PC invading terran planets to abduct psychics (and other species) for experimentation. As the PC goes about harvesting, the briefings could provide bits of information about the zerg that build into a larger picture. First it's established that you consume species to gain their useful traits, and humans have developed useful traits. PC harvests terrans, learns a bit about psychic powers. Then it's established that the protoss aren't just a random threat, but that the current invasion is part of a greater plan to attack their empire using the new research. But you don't invade immediately! You can save that for later campaigns, don't blow your load in the first story arc!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    -Finally the Protoss campaign. Suffers from my usual annoyances, massively in some cases.. But, the plot idea is cool. Just the execution is horrible and so so rushed. Not much more to say about this...That whole good energy vs dark energy shit is a bit too convenient to my taste but, with better pacing, it could have been sold well.
    Oh definitely. Devastating terran space, invading Aiur, and killing the hivemind in the first game pretty much blew the franchise's entire potential load at once and everything afterward could never live up to that. BW and SC2 just recycle the same general outlines of world-ending invasions.

    I think the "dark energy kills brain bugs" thing is an unnecessary plot device, especially since the zerg's backstory said they could not survive a war with the khalai at that point in time. They already knew where the Protoss Empire was, and who wouldn't considering it's apparently huge, they just couldn't attack it and hope to survive.

    While I'm opposed to blowing the invasion load all at once since it's epic enough to be the context of the entire franchise forever, I think that this could've been handled much better. Instead of the zerg being magically immortal, they developed electronic warfare using terran psychics and khaydarin crystals to interfere with the Protoss Empire's logistics. The khalai discover that the zerg seem to use a combination of the light and dark sides of the force, which the khala can't trivially overcome because it only uses the light side. Tassadar develops the twilight path, which his allies in the dark templar and high templar adopt in order to fight back against the zerg. They develop their own special attacks and attack the zerg's hivemind back, ultimately breaking the Overmind connection and causing the zerg to go berserk and attack each other in the "brood wars." The damage to protoss infrastructure isn't going to fix itself overnight, so this buys the protoss and other species within empire space including terrans a desperately needed reprieve.

    Or something along those lines. You can't do the apocalyptic galactic war narrative more than once before it becomes silly.

  10. #40

    Default Re: I am going to Blizzcon

    I respectfully disagree that you need to read the manual to get SC1. I found it pretty easy to grasp as a kid, and didn't read the manual until I got my own copy (first was my brother's or his friend's, don't remember which). I also feel that the story dispensal to be adequate. As for the moment of Mengsk blaming the Zerg on the Confederacy, I liked this as a bit of world-building, because it (1) establishes Mengsk as someone who manipulates information to his advantage, (2) shows the misconceptions people can get about new events, (3) elucidates the nature of the Confederacy, and (4), slowly makes the story bigger than its previous status.

    Point 2 is especially important, because many noob writers more or less accidentally have all characters know all information that the reader would know, despite the fact that a given character only knows what they themselves have seen. They don't have the reader's perspective. Since Mengsk doesn't understand the Zerg at this point, it makes sense that he would draw a semi-false conclusion about them.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

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