Starcraft 2 isn’t fun to watch...

[Wankey]

I might get flak for this but I just feel that Starcraft II isn’t fun to watch at all. I’ve been watching SC1 Vods, and even mediocre games are much more fun to watch than Starcraft 2 battlereports (although they are on a level of fun, they just aren’t that exciting)

One reason I suppose is due to the ease of information. The screen is just cluttered with information. SC2 is akeen to American Football rather than Soccer. Where each play is displayed out next to the screen, cluttering the actual game. I really don’t care what they’re building. I just want to see the game and draw out my on conclusions. Plus it kinda takes the surprise away when you know how they did it. I don’t think the Korean commentator ever said “oh look, he’s researching shield now.” Kinda gives the trick away if the commentators can simply spit out the build order.

When I watch SC2, I’m flooded with HP bars. I hate it when during a battle, they turn on HP bars to see how fast the HP is draining. I don’t care! I want to see the actual battles! It’s not like during the world cup, when Brazil is on offence, the commentators attach a running speed indicator to every single player right before they score. It’s annoying and pointless. And since the health bars cover parts of the top of the unit, it’s even more annoying.

Another reason is the speed of the gameplay. It’s simply too fast. Guns fire super fast, Marauders launch their grenades 2 times a second. Siege tank seems to have no reload time in normal mode. Everything just happens way too fast for me to really get into it. Even the storm is like BAM and it’s over. It’s not really a storm, more like a lightning strike.

One thing that irritates me is that strategies aren’t that “creative”. The nuke, in BR4, felt boring. Unlike the Nuke in the original… it just felt… over designed. The target designator is a completely stupid idea. Gives no sense of suspense, when is it gonna drop? I dunno? Well, now I know… since the crosshairs haven’t touched yet.

The gameplay seems to only be oh what is the response to one strategy. Terran siege tank dropped… what’s the response… etc etc. It’s like they’ve got these plays down (a la NFL) and it’s textbook play to do what ever DB says you should do.

Another thing is the art design. In SC1, the readability of units was ridiculously amazing. Even in large armies, you could instantly count at a glance how many units there were. And even when the fight got on to Zerg creep, it was still incredibly clear. SC2 is quite a few steps backwards. With the advent on Blob pathfinding, you are literally just watching a blob units go from on area to the next. In SC1, the units would go line by line or spread out way further than required. Not only did this slow the gameplay somewhat, it made some pathfinding blocks funny (for instance, in one video the ghost blocked a zergling.. and in that split moment, you could feel the play going “omg omg did he notice that?”)

I’m sure this is still incredibly premature to call Starcraft II out on anything. And the gameplay of SC2 probably won’t be as amazing as SC1 until the first or second expansion comes out (maybe even a few years after that). But I hope SC2 won’t fall into the same category as War3. Fun to play, but boring to watch.

The 2v2 Blizzcon games were fun to watch though. Hopefully SC2 is headed towards that kind of future.

[Nicol Bolas]

So let me get this straight. Giving the watcher of a game information on what is happening in that game... this is bad?

To me, the excitement of when a nuke strikes isn't about the fact that I don't have a timeframe for when it's coming down. It's about "is the opposing player going to find the Ghost and kill it first?" Or "is the player going to evac his units in time?"

I just don't see how concealing information about what is going on in a game is a good thing.

In televised matches, the observers are always finding ways to provide the viewer with information. They frequently select units to see whether the player has gotten a particular upgrade. And so on. Indeed, they added various hacks to the game specifically so that they can see what resources each player has, what units have been built, etc.

So there's clearly a desire on the part of broadcasters to provide this kind of information. All Blizzard has done is make it available.

As for health bars, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. They help show which units are low on health vs. which aren't. In a set of small-unit micro, this is critical to understanding what's going on.

[SaharaDrac]

I don’t think the Korean commentator ever said “oh look, he’s researching shield now.”

This is the point where your post became unfit for consideration.

[supersonic]

Another reason is the speed of the gameplay. It’s simply too fast. Guns fire super fast, Marauders launch their grenades 2 times a second. Siege tank seems to have no reload time in normal mode. Everything just happens way too fast for me to really get into it. Even the storm is like BAM and it’s over. It’s not really a storm, more like a lightning strike.

Another thing is the art design. In SC1, the readability of units was ridiculously amazing. Even in large armies, you could instantly count at a glance how many units there were. And even when the fight got on to Zerg creep, it was still incredibly clear. SC2 is quite a few steps backwards. With the advent on Blob pathfinding, you are literally just watching a blob units go from on area to the next.

I agree with these 2 points but things like

The gameplay seems to only be oh what is the response to one strategy. Terran siege tank dropped… what’s the response… etc etc. It’s like they’ve got these plays down (a la NFL) and it’s textbook play to do what ever DB says you should do.

and

One reason I suppose is due to the ease of information. The screen is just cluttered with information. SC2 is akeen to American Football rather than Soccer. Where each play is displayed out next to the screen, cluttering the actual game. I really don’t care what they’re building. I just want to see the game and draw out my on conclusions. Plus it kinda takes the surprise away when you know how they did it. I don’t think the Korean commentator ever said “oh look, he’s researching shield now.” Kinda gives the trick away if the commentators can simply spit out the build order.

Have you ever watched pro SC with English commentators? I suggest you go watch some games from Diggitysc's youtube channel, hes an excellent commentator and they catch just about everything, they just don't make it sound super spoon fed like the BR commentators do. (and completely set up and over practiced.)

[Zabimaru]

Diggitysc's youtube channel

I Love Diggity! But don’t forget Cholera, Klaz, Rise, Moltrap and the rest.

[Xyvik]

The gameplay seems to only be oh what is the response to one strategy. Terran siege tank dropped… what’s the response… etc etc. It’s like they’ve got these plays down (a la NFL) and it’s textbook play to do what ever DB says you should do.

That sentence proves you haven't the FAINTEST idea about the NFL. Why, just last year they invented a new play formation called the WildCat. Every year teams experiment with new play calls, new defense formations, new this and new that. From one year to the next you can NEVER guess exactly how the divisions are going to play out. You have your great teams, sure, but it's impossible to guess divisions anymore. The Patriots aren't guaranteed wins anymore, so really only the Colts can you assume they're going to win. Absolutely nobody guessed the Broncos would get so far without a loss this season. It's always different.

My biggest problem with watching SC2 so far is that the battlereports...I hate the commentators. Let's be honest with ourselves, Dustin may be a great designer but he is a TERRIBLE (terrible damage) commentator! The other guy's voice is annoying, and quite frankly I find myself having to switch off the sound. Which is sad, because I still don't know what the nuke sounds like.

[supersonic]

I Love Diggity! But don’t forget Cholera, Klaz, Rise, Moltrap and the rest.

lol yeah that's true, they are all very exceptional commentators, I would REALLY love it if Blizzard had Diggity or Cholera commentate BR5 =P

My biggest problem with watching SC2 so far is that the battlereports...I hate the commentators. Let's be honest with ourselves, Dustin may be a great designer but he is a TERRIBLE (terrible damage) commentator! The other guy's voice is annoying, and quite frankly I find myself having to switch off the sound. Which is sad, because I still don't know what the nuke sounds like.

YES they are TERRIBLE and I can't stand it anymore!

[Wankey]

That sentence proves you haven't the FAINTEST idea about the NFL. Why, just last year they invented a new play formation called the WildCat. Every year teams experiment with new play calls, new defense formations, new this and new that. From one year to the next you can NEVER guess exactly how the divisions are going to play out. You have your great teams, sure, but it's impossible to guess divisions anymore. The Patriots aren't guaranteed wins anymore, so really only the Colts can you assume they're going to win. Absolutely nobody guessed the Broncos would get so far without a loss this season. It's always different.

You just proved my point. I don’t want to hear anything about any plays. You just told me there are a million plays. I DON’T want to know any of them. It’s like every card has a counter card to play (well, you can think of new cards BUT I Don’t care!) Your second part is unrelated to what I was saying.

I watch sports for the game. Not, ooh they’re going to do XZ play, what is minnesota going to counter with? I’ve never heard this in Soccer. I’ve never heard the commentators going “Brazil is doing a deep strike, Italy will do a light defend.” It’s all fluid, it’s all about how you act and react on the fly.

It’s so much more of a fluid game when “plays” aren’t defined and they happen oh so quickly. SC2 feels like it’s just the same play. There’s no real variation. From the BR, it’s just push push push. Build an assortment of units, and push. Very little micro required. BR4 introduced the tank drop, whoop dee doo. Like we haven’t seen that before. The problem is we haven’t really seen the greater SC2 strategies. These guys are STILL playing with SC1 in mind. Where are the marine + medivac drops? Where is the bunker push + salvage? Where is the massed ghost harass? or dark templar for that matter? Or even immortals. By the time they come on the field, the game’s GG.

I suppose we can blame the battlereports for this. The games aren’t actually very interesting, they don’t try flanking maneuvres, drops, or any kind of interesting gameplay strategies. They merely resource, expand, harass with workers… And do a big battle or just over mass the other guy.

[Justamonster]

Someone here has noticed some in-game flaws except macro related ones? t’s quite an achievement lol

Yes, at this point the game is boringly uninteresting compared to SCBW: units’ cluttering, insane gameplay speed, undeveloped meta, mostly boring units and abilities, weak immersion/realism features, practically inexistent ‘natural’ micro, artificial macro and etc. have made this game pretty unpleasant to watch.

[Zahar]

...
I watch sports for the game. Not, ooh they’re going to do XZ play, what is minnesota going to counter with? I’ve never heard this in Soccer. I’ve never heard the commentators going “Brazil is doing a deep strike, Italy will do a light defend.” It’s all fluid, it’s all about how you act and react on the fly.

It's not fluid or on the fly, korean TV simply skips the explanations since everyone know by heart every damn counter in the game already. They don't have to say "oh, terran is going mech so protoss is probably gonna use zeal bomb on top of tanks", it's an old game and everyone knows the counters. They will only comment on unusual counters, cheese or specially good micro.

Soccer commentators would also say "Italy overcommited to the offensive, now they have a hard time stopping this counter", it's all the same. A generic, obvious strategic remark. By the way, I'm brazilian, soccer is on TV all the friggin time here (and no, I don't like soccer).

What yor are complaining about really is the excessive narrative details, and you have to understand they are not doing it to the über hardcore fans that watched 10000 korean replays, they are trying to make replay watching at higher lv play a acessive thing for new players (and old SC casual players), so they will explain pretty obvious choices the players make, yes.

The information (the game displays) itself is great, it allows you to keep informed on a lot of stuff that is happening. I don't know about you, but I also watch replays that don't have professional comments, and I'd love to watch a replay of a game I lost just ONE time because I can spot my mistakes at once instead of having to wander what went wrong all the time till I click some unit/construction at random.