MULE suggestion/poll

[Krikkitone]

In the interest of making one of the macro mechanics have more possible strategic depth, I am proposing (not originally) an change to the MULE so that it is capable of effectively mining at a mineral patch where there is not currently a CC.

The barrier to the MULE (or any worker) effectively mining where there is no CC is the travel time... I can see two ways around this

1) Remote Deposit: The MULE does not have to Travel back to the CC to return minerals during its timed life

Strategic implications:
Distance to Mineral deposit is irrelevant
Player can mine from Rock-blocked areas, and Islands easily
The MULE Could be immobile, more of a building than a unit, forced to be targeted on mineral patches like an assimilator, or next to them in the opposite of a CC (meaning no siege tank bombs/scouting/distraction) If immobile it might be good for it to have a limited 'mining range' so that it could use a second deposit if the first ran out.


2) Mineral Limit: The MULE has a separate limit (other than its timed life) on how many total chunks of minerals it can gather. Its timed life is extended so that even with extended travel it will still be able to gather the same amount of minerals, and travel as far as it needs to.

Strategic Implications:
Player can mine from Rock-blocked areas easily, Islands are inaccessible though
Distance (and path) to mineral deposit ARE relevant (not for amount of minerals, but for how quickly + safely you will get them)



For each possibility, one other alternative can affect how it plays out

1) One: The MULE returns minerals only once, either at the end of its life, or when it has collected its maximum amount
**Possible interesting variation, the MULE mines until it either 1. reaches its mineral/time limit and then returns OR 2. You decide to 'cash in' and prevent the MULE from mining anymore but have it Begin to deliver the minerals it Has collected to your CC (if it is a 'remote deposit, it might still take 5-10 sec to 'launch the minerals' in which time it might still get destroyed.)

Strategic implications:
MULE must be protected for its entire life or 0 minerals are gained
The minerals arrive in one shot at the End of the MULE’s life... it won't help you Now


2) Multiple:The MULE returns the minerals in Multiple deposits (whether through travelling or Direct deposit)

Strategic implications:
MULE must be protected for its entire mining+delivering life for Maximum minerals, you will get some even if it dies halfway through
Minerals are gained in the normal way, over time
The 'return path' (if it exists) must be Very Carefully guarded, as it will be used multiple times




Strategic implications: for Remote mining in general
May allow early access to Gold Minerals (only important if the MULE mines faster/more from Gold Minerals than normal)
Map awareness becomes very important to the players (a MULE may be able to take something in secret).. this plays well into the Terran's Sensor Tower.

Looking at each of the four combinations, and some possible ways they could play out.

1) Remote Deposit, One-shot:

In this case the MULE is targeted at a Mineral pile, and for as long as its life lasts it collects minerals (unless ordered otherwise). At the end of that life, the Minerals it has collected are sent to the player's supply.

Here, I see the MULE as a bit more advanced, more like a very small prefab building... It collects the Minerals, and at the end of its life, sends off the minerals in an Non-weapon targetable 'rocket package' that goes to the nearest CC to deposit the minerals (at which point its prefab power plant shuts down, as it has accomplished its job)




2) Remote Deposit, Multiple-shot:

In this case the MULE is targeted at a Mineral pile, and for as long as its life lasts it collects minerals (unless ordered otherwise). As soon as the chunks are collected, the Minerals are sent to the player's supply.

Here, I see the MULE as a bit more like a temporary mining specialized CC... It collects the Minerals, and "deposits" them to itself (until its limited lifespan power plant shuts down, as it was only designed for limited time)... it could work like the 'rockets' of the previous option though

It should probably not be handle deposits from SCVs



3) Mineral Limit, One Trip:

In this case the MULE is targeted at a mineral pile, however after it has collected a certain # of mineral chunks, or a certain number of minerals it can no longer mine for any more of its life, and must at that point return the minerals to the CC by carrying them there on the ground. (before its timed life runs out... however its timed life should be at least 60 sec longer than it takes to mine to full capacity)

I see this as being a somewhat large, slightly slower unit but with somewhat more hp (120-160). The limitations on the mining can be explained lorewise as a limited number of ‘fusion cutter charges’ that this ‘limited use miner’ has (it uses the good old SC1:BW SCV tech in a cut rate way.) [something that would work/be displayed just like vulture mines... it starts with X charges and each time it collects a chunk X goes down by 1]

It would have to be mobile, but as it only needs to make one trip, it doesn’t need to be too fast, and so it can have an ‘escort’ that protects it both while its mining, as well as while its travelling back.



4) Mineral Limit, Multiple Trip:

In this case the MULE is targeted at a mineral pile, however after it has collected a certain # of mineral chunk (of probably large size say 25), or a certain number of minerals it can no longer mine for any more of its life. Also, in this case each mineral chunk must individually be returned to the nearest CC. In this case the unit should have a very long timed life probably at lest 100 sec. longer than the mining alone takes... for the multiple trips back

I see this as being a somewhat smaller, very fast unit but with somewhat lower hp (40-60). The limitations on the mining can be explained lorewise as a limited number of ‘fusion cutter charges’ that this ‘limited use miner’ has (it uses the good old SC1:BW SCV tech in a cut rate way.) [something that would work/be displayed just like vulture mines... it starts with X charges and each time it collects a chunk X goes down by 1]

It would have to be mobile, and as it would have to take multiple trips, it would probably need to be fast. This also means the Terran must have map control over the entire return path as well as the mining area.




If you think that the MULE should just stay as is (or have another drastically different idea)... don’t worry about the poll

[StrongCoffee]

GOD, huge text wall...

I see only one flaw in the one trip strategy...that means then if the MULE is atacked and destroyed before this single trip, all te time, energy and cargo will be lost. Imagine 6 MULES harvesting from distance, with little o no defenses and with the one trip system. Dark Templars and reapers, time to party...

[ArcherofAiur]

This has been proposed before.

[Krikkitone]

This has been proposed before.

Hence the "(not originally)" and I was trying to see more what form of it seems to work the best.


As for the One Trip method having the 'flaw' of it must be protected the entire time... well that is only a 'flaw' in the sense that it is a nerf for the ability.

I could see it as a plus for gameplay (depending on how much of a nerf it actually is) It could be balanced out by, increasing the units hp+armor, or its mining speed, etc.
(That's why I put all of those as Strategic Implications, instead of pros/cons)

PS Wall of text improved

There is a big issue as to whether or not Gold should give a bonus... it Doesn't give a bonus for Proton Charge (still +1) but it Does 'give a bonus' for Spawn Larva (Drones collect more from Gold whether they were spawned or not)

I feel that it probably should, because that would give the players a compelling reason to mine from a base other than their main/natural.


It is defintely directional. Since the poll is trying to figure out the best possible idea of remote mining, the post is based on that. Whether or not remote mining of any type is a good idea can be discussed in the thread, but that alters the numbers on a poll.

[ArcherofAiur]

You need less spaces in between your points. Use paragraphs

-dashes
1 numbering
Bold
etc... to make it clearer.

Also your post is very um directional.

[Krikkitone]

Seems all of the Votes are for multiple Trips, anyone like the single trip strategic effects (big gamble)? what if that single trip was relatively short (15-25 sec.)

[n00bonicPlague]

There's a problem with your poll. Remote mining and alternate limit, unlike one trip vs multiple trips, are not mutually exclusive. You could use both in the same mechanic. An example would be Archer's MULE idea. It was a remote, one trip mineral limit. In his idea the MULE would launch from the OC, drop at the mineral pile, gather minerals until it was full, and then fly off back to the OC, returning its payload to the player. The risk was that your enemy could stumble upon the operating MULE and kill it before it had a chance to return.

Anyway, I'm not sure which combination I would be in favor of. I'll have to think about it.

[Krikkitone]

Well Remote deposit means that a mineral limit is totally unnecessary... I am assuming it has a timed life... and it has a rate at which it mines minerals....

if it doesn't do Anything else...but mine (like a Remote deposit would)

Mineral Limit= Timed Life * Mining Rate

There is no need for a second mechanic (Timed Life is already a mechanic in the game, there isn't really much of a mechanic for Mineral Limit... except the "chunk size")

On the other hand, if the MULE both Moves (for the purpose of returning minerals) and Mines, then for Remote mining to make sense,
1. Travel time must be allowed for
2. Closer minerals should not make for more trips (ie more total minerals) even though you have time to DO more trips

So the Timed Life has to accomodate mining that is either close or very far away from a CC without having a significant impact on the number of trips done

The only way to do that is to have a mining limit seperate from the timed life

So basically the options are

1. Remote Deposit
Mineral/Time Limit are both the same function (you only need one and not the other)

2. Travelling
Mineral Limit and Time Limit are separate things (Time Limit=Mining time to reach the Mineral Limit + any Travel time that might be needed)




**Possible interesting variation on the 'One Trip' options, the MULE mines until it either
1. reaches its mineral/time limit and then returns OR
2. You decide to 'cash in' and prevent the MULE from mining anymore but have it Begin to deliver the minerals it Has collected to your CC (if it is a 'remote deposit, it might still take 5-10 sec to 'launch the minerals' in which time it might still get destroyed.)

[Tigger]

Wait, would remote deposit allow you to mine from blocked high yield mineral areas?
You could mine there without having to break the rocks.

[Krikkitone]

Wait, would remote deposit allow you to mine from blocked high yield mineral areas?
You could mine there without having to break the rocks.

True, but the MULE might not collect any extra minerals (for an SCV the numbers are 5 and 7... but for a current MULE the numbers are 15 and 15?) so at best it would mean somone's expansion exhausts sooner (and it could be yours.)

Whether or not the MULE collects extra for gold is another issue... the 'remote mining' itself might be a big enough bonus.