Vehicles that can move and shoot

[Wankey]

Like hell it's a Blizzard rule, just like "no MBS" or "no smartcasting" are Blizzard rules Fanboys just can't get over the fact that 10 year old UIs and mechanics are old, stale, and broken, and that Starcraft/BW is not the Be All and End All of RTS games.

Shooting while moving would be a great addition, it would open up new strategies for players to try out and the possibility of new mechanics being added. Most melee units would still be faster, so they could chase down fleeing units, and if you really must you could add a penalty to the unit firing while on the move.

I don’t think you get it. Shooting while moving is a horribly bad idea and should only be put on a few units if stopping while shooting breaks their gameplay. All you have to do is intercept the enemy and it’s gg for them. Lets take your idea of melee unit vs ranged. A melee unit will just run up to the ranged unit and start hacking… the ranged unit starts running, and the melee unit will keep up the pace, while hacking away at the ranged. And if you want to balance it, you let the ranged guy somehow run backwards as he’s firing at the melee guy. Then you’re literally just watching one guy shoot the other guy while running, and the other guy flailing his arms cutting him as he chases 5cm away (assume they are the same speed) This goes on until one person dies.

The currently stop while you attack means if you run, the attacker does less DPS than usual (since units have to stop, shoot, catch up, stop shoot)… it allows you to withdraw your forces while suffering less damage, and gives the offender time to realize that by following, he’ll just be walking into an ambush. Another key here is that units don’t shoot while moving. The second the enemy decides to run, he can’t attack you and you do less DPS to him. That creates another level of gameplay that can’t be found in shooting while running mechanics. You kite a unit like that that feels fair. In a shooting while running system, kiting is just moving a faster unit away from a melee unit and it will keep firing as it moves. If you kite in SC, you have to shoot… move, stop, turn around, and shoot… so the end points of your click is where you get to shoot back, and the second he gets to you, to move. It’s a much more complicated in depth system compared to just clicking 5 waypoints and then watching the melee character play piggy in the middle as your gun shoots continuously.

It also gives a lot of strategy in terms of offensive and defensive. An even worse implementation is initiating shooting while moving, ie just get into range, your units will open file. The current system, you need to take some flak before the bulk of your forces are in range then you stop and shoot. So defenders have a “slightly” better advantage. If you didn’t need to stop, you simply dance around your forces until the automatic firing kills both sides.

This is the gameplay that Supreme Commander was made of. You simply move two massive land forces into each others range, you micro by moving them aimlessly in multitude of directions (since their turrets track and shoot automatically, and some times if they move fast enough you can dodge bullets)… it’s a very boring gameplay that doesn’t really have the strategic depth that Starcraft has. It’s literally just two massive mound of troops, you click as many places as you can on the ground, and the troops move in circles while shooting at the enemy. When you run, your enemy will just chase with his mass of forces near you since they don’t have to stop and shoot… Most of the time when you want to run (ie if you’re losing the battle) the enemy will keep running after you since tanks are usually the same speed (sometimes even next to you) shooting non stop until your entire forces are wiped out. If you think this kind of commit all your forces to a battle and watch them kill each other gameplay is good then please, go play SupCom.

[ArcherofAiur]

I don’t think you get it. Shooting while moving is a horribly bad idea and should only be put on a few units if stopping while shooting breaks their gameplay. All you have to do is intercept the enemy and it’s gg for them. Lets take your idea of melee unit vs ranged. A melee unit will just run up to the ranged unit and start hacking… the ranged unit starts running, and the melee unit will keep up the pace, while hacking away at the ranged. And if you want to balance it, you let the ranged guy somehow run backwards as he’s firing at the melee guy.

How is that bad? The melee fire-and-move unit can beat the ranged fire-or-move unit. Unless the ranged fire-or-move unit stops and shoots. Hmmm now we have a new type of battlefield dynamic different from all the other fire-or-move vs fire-or-move fights.

And you said all you have to do is interceppt the enemy and its gg. Thats kind of a gross overstatement. What if they stop and shoot? What if they are faster? What if your moving away from the rest of your army or a hundred other battlefield factors that can affect the outcome?


Now I agree with you that every unit shouldnt have this. In fact I agree that most units shouldnt have that. But there is nothing wrong with giving a couple units this advantage.

[Crazy_Jonny]

Shooting while moving on the Hellion is a BAD idea. While it does sound cool, it would hurt it balence wise. The hellion is suppose to be a high micro unit (atleast thats what I think harassment units should be), plus it already has huge splash damage. Moving with splash would be overpowered (zealots and lings wouldn't be able to escape).

Now the tank on the other hand sounds like a good idea, because as mentioned before, it could encourage the tank mode. Maybe when it fires, it should give off a recoil (slow down for a split second). Just an idea.

[ArcherofAiur]

Shooting while moving on the Hellion is a BAD idea. While it does sound cool, it would hurt it balence wise. The hellion is suppose to be a high micro unit (atleast thats what I think harassment units should be), plus it already has huge splash damage.

Now the tank on the other hand sounds like a good idea, because as mentioned before, it could encourage the tank mode. Maybe when it fires, it should give off a recoil (slow down for a split second). Just an idea.

Im slowly being persuaded to that opinion. move-and-shoot should go on appropriate units and the Siege Tank (Tank Mode) could definatly use it.

[Pandonetho]

Moving with splash would be overpowered (zealots and lings wouldn't be able to escape).

Uh, how does making them move and fire at the same time change the fact that Zealots and lings can't escape? They already can't escape.

[Crazy_Jonny]

Uh, how does making them move and fire at the same time change the fact that Zealots and lings can't escape? They already can't escape.

If you micro correctly, the move+attack idea just makes it even easier to micro. Atleast when you have to stop, it means you need to pull ahead of the zealot or ling first and position correctly. With auto fire, you just have to keep up with no thought.

[Pandonetho]

None of that is relevant to what I said, whether Hellions can move and fire at the same time or not doesn't change the fact that Zealots and Lings just can't escape, so it was a moot point to begin with.

[Crazy_Jonny]

None of that is relevant to what I said, whether Hellions can move and fire at the same time or not doesn't change the fact that Zealots and Lings just can't escape, so it was a moot point to begin with.

I was using that as an example. Lets put it this way, you have a mobile unit with splash damage. Powerful combo right there. Now the mobile unit doesn't have to stop. That would be like increasing the speed of an already fast unit. Its imbalenced. Its advantage over small infantry can be exploited even further.

Another example:
It would also be easier to harass the worker lines while avoiding fire. You dont have to worry about placing your units in a certain place before stopping to attack, you can just constantly move along the mineral line and avoid fire from reinforcements.

I like the coolness of the ability, but its just too powerful.

[Pandonetho]

I was using that as an example. Lets put it this way, you have a mobile unit with splash damage. Powerful combo right there. Now the mobile unit doesn't have to stop. That would be like increasing the speed of an already fast unit. Its imbalenced.

Yeah I'm sure the world dictates that making an already fast unit faster is imbalanced in SC2, a game we haven't played yet. Sure love the terabytes of evidence supporting this.

[ArcherofAiur]

Another example:
It would also be easier to harass the worker lines while avoiding fire. You dont have to worry about placing your units in a certain place before stopping to attack, you can just constantly move along the mineral line and avoid fire from reinforcements.

I like the coolness of the ability, but its just too powerful.

Hmmm helions constantly moving around a mineral line torching probes. I actually dont think that would be too powerful.