Vehicles that can move and shoot

[Norfindel]

[...]

Well, anyways, the second part of my post was the explanation of why units that shoot on the move can keep shooting other units more frequently/constantly:

The explanation would be:
If TARGET has slower movement speed than ATTACKER, but ATTACKER must stop half a second to perform stop-attack-move, ATTACKER can only attack intermitently. 99% of the units work like this.

If ATTACKER can shoot on the move, he begins it's attack, and chases the TARGET. As it's faster, it doesn't need to ever stop it's attack.

[Pandonetho]

Well, anyways, the second part of my post was the explanation of why units that shoot on the move can keep shooting other units more frequently/constantly:

There is a specific set cooldown on the flame, how is making it able to move and fire at the same time going to affect that if the Hellion can already keep up with its enemy?

[Norfindel]

There is a specific set cooldown on the flame, how is making it able to move and fire at the same time going to affect that if the Hellion can already keep up with its enemy?

While they shoot, they cannot move, so the enemy gets out of range, shortening the time of the attack, and forcing the Hellion to move again, and restart the firing cycle. If the Hellion could chase the enemy while shooting, the flame will hit the enemy 100% of the cooldown cycle.

Take a look at the battle report 4. In 10:40 there are some Hellions shooting at Stalkers. It's clear that the Stalkers can escape from the Hellions because of the stop-to-shoot mechanic, and the Hellions cannot shoot the full cycle.

At 8:12 there's a better example: a lonely Zealot running away from 3 Hellions. He dies at the end, but can run quite a bit before that happends. Should the 3 Hellions shoot constantly at him, he will be doomed in no time.

[ArcherofAiur]

While they shoot, they cannot move, so the enemy gets out of range, shortening the time of the attack, and forcing the Hellion to move again, and restart the firing cycle. If the Hellion could chase the enemy while shooting, the flame will hit the enemy 100% of the cooldown cycle.

Take a look at the battle report 4. In 10:40 there are some Hellions shooting at Stalkers. It's clear that the Stalkers can escape from the Hellions because of the stop-to-shoot mechanic, and the Hellions cannot shoot the full cycle.

At 8:12 there's a better example: a lonely Zealot running away from 3 Hellions. He dies at the end, but can run quite a bit before that happends. Should the 3 Hellions shoot constantly at him, he will be doomed in no time.

Again how much more of an awesome and unique harassment unit would the hellion have been had it had move-and-shoot and continuous fire.

[Pandonetho]

Uh, you don't seem to realize that the entire damage is dealt from the initial burst of fire.

It doesn't matter if it shoots the entire duration.

It's exactly like the Colossus dealing its whole damage to a line of unit at once, it doesn't deal the damage from one side to the other.

That Zealot would have ran for just as long if they were firing their entire duration at him... because it doesn't do any extra damage.

[Crazy_Jonny]

This is getting ridiculous, go back to elementary school or else improve your reading comprehension. What part of THIS don't you understand?

The Hellion can already chase down a lot of units, there is no unit it can't chase down. Making it move + fire at the same time, WILL NOT CHANGE THIS FACT. I'm not making any statements about balance alright? Get that through your skull.

Im not getting into a flame war like you guys with your silly macro mechanics. Respond without going off your knocker.

Anyway, my argument is not aimed at the fact the Hellion can already chase units. By giving it an attack on the move, it will be able to avoid/outmaneuver enemy attacks while still dealing out damage. It makes something that was already powerful even more powerful. It makes it much easier to kill low tier units without taking damage. That affects the units balance, does it not?

People using the point that making the Hellion move and fire at the same time will allow it to chase down units that it otherwise couldn't, are making a stupid point. Get that through your skull.

Explain how its a stupid point? Than I will get it through my skull. Back up your claims with something other than insults.

Its not the chasing down part, its being able to get ahead/surround the unit while attacking. At least when you have to stop, the enemy has a chance to retreat where he might have more units or something.

Again, the chasing units easier part is not my issue, but its that as soon as its in the line of fire, your hellion can attack, while chasing. It allows the hellion to get an extra attack off than it normally would if it had to stop. Theres no way you can implement this without a nerf, and nerfing the unit would make it more massable, which would mess with the balence.

And no, half a second is not a lot in Starcraft, I don't care how hyped up people make every "half second" to be, but it is not a lot of time.

With a fast unit like the Hellion, a half second for every stop can add up, since all the time your not moving is even worse than for a slower unit.

Plus, its not so much about the time, its about getting another volly off before getting on move again.

Look at the god damn Battle Report, does it look like it will make a difference in whether it will be able to chase units down or not if it can move and fire? No, because it already moves instantly after firing, similar to how the vulture can do the same thing, now go and improve your damn reading comprehension.

If they can fire on the move, theyll have the option to attack units on the way in for a harassment. As it stands now, when your going for a eco attack, you take a risk in loosing your units on the way in, not putting out any damage to whats around you.

Giving it an attack while moving diminishes the risk factor.

The main issue with Hellions that can fire on the move is with their AoE attack.

The flames currently last for about a second. If during that time, any unit that moves under the flames also takes AoE damage, then it becomes very easy to turn a linear AoE into a triangular area AoE. For example:

     X
    U U
   U   U
        H

Let's say that "H" is a Hellion and X is the unit it's targetting (U is some other unit). Given this positioning, when it starts firing, it will hit X and 2 Us.

As it currently stands, if the Hellion starts moving, then the flames stop. However, if you have fire and move, then you can do much more damage if you shift the Hellion to this position:

     X
    U U
   U   U
  H <--

That will cause it to hit X and 4 Us. That is an almost a doubling of the damage that the one Hellion did.

Imagine a block of Marines. Now imagine just four Hellions that can, by sweeping their flames, do damage to all of them. That is, each Hellion hits each Marine. In order for this to not insta-kill these Marines, Hellions would have to do less than 10 damage each.

Having such a low-tier unit be such a powerful counter to anything that travels in groups is not a good idea.

I think you explained it better than I couldve, not to mention it makes some point I wasnt thinking about.

[DemolitionSquid]

Uh, you don't seem to realize that the entire damage is dealt from the initial burst of fire.

It doesn't matter if it shoots the entire duration.

It's exactly like the Colossus dealing its whole damage to a line of unit at once, it doesn't deal the damage from one side to the other.

That Zealot would have ran for just as long if they were firing their entire duration at him... because it doesn't do any extra damage.

Anything caught in the Hellion's flame gets damaged, regardless of when it enters the flame. This has been confirmed by multiple people who have played the game at Cons. Nicol's information is correct, as is his illustration of what would happen if the Hellion had shoot-while-moving.

[Norfindel]

Anything caught in the Hellion's flame gets damaged, regardless of when it enters the flame. This has been confirmed by multiple people who have played the game at Cons. Nicol's information is correct, as is his illustration of what would happen if the Hellion had shoot-while-moving.

Uh, you don't seem to realize that the entire damage is dealt from the initial burst of fire.

It doesn't matter if it shoots the entire duration.

It's exactly like the Colossus dealing its whole damage to a line of unit at once, it doesn't deal the damage from one side to the other.

That Zealot would have ran for just as long if they were firing their entire duration at him... because it doesn't do any extra damage.

But the flame lasts a lot of time, surely the Hellion's attack rate is faster than that. It's listed as Normal in sc2armory, it would be a very slow attack rate, if it's cooldown was the duration of the flame.

[Wankey]

Again how much more of an awesome and unique harassment unit would the hellion have been had it had move-and-shoot and continuous fire.

It’s awesomely OP if that’s what you’re asking. All you need to do to counter a zealot rush is stay a bit out of melee range and it’ll constantly flame it to death (with the zealot player having absolutely no way to catch up to hellion)

I like the current way. It requires some micro, and you can burst damage.

[Pandonetho]

IIT debating with people is pointless.

It’s awesomely OP if that’s what you’re asking. All you need to do to counter a zealot rush is stay a bit out of melee range and it’ll constantly flame it to death (with the zealot player having absolutely no way to catch up to hellion)

So are you implying that the Hellion CAN'T already do this?

I like how people are pulling "OP" out of their ass like they know it as a fact.