Should Artanis' Age be Retconned Up?

[newcomplex]

I haven't seen any lore saying the opposite either. There have been plenty of situations where such an ability would be useful, and they were simply not used.

Isn't that Zamara's quote?

That's Artanis. He's a named character. Or, more importantly, for universe purposes, a powerful character. You don't just give the Uraj to anyone.

Yes, they're powerful psychics, but you did notice that only high templar can use such powers. Other protoss can sometimes unleash such powers (eg dark templar, Tal'darim) but not with control. I don't think a zealot is going to start dishing out powers that might kill him and his fellows.

I think we've seen plenty of situations where the ability to disable or kill an opponent at range would have been highly useful. Remember Fenix and the hydralisk? If his psi-blades (which are at least partially technology-powered) short out, why doesn't he just stun it or kill it? Or even enhance his shields? Or use telekinesis to throw it far enough away that he could escape?

There's that other quote. I don't think I've seen proof to back that up, which is important since this is a character's thoughts and not stated universe facts. Characters often "think" wrong. (It's almost hysterical how many terrans think neural resocialization is robust, for instance.)

Of course, the typical ghost has few powers by themselves; they can read minds and sense psionics, and that's it. I don't know if protoss can naturally sense psionics (we've seen ghosts sneak up on them a few times) but the typical protoss can mentally link with numerous others, already putting them beyond the typical ghost. But I don't see much evidence that the standard, generic zealot can match the more powerful ghosts, any more than I see evidence that even the most powerful ghosts can match a high templar.

Ever since 2006, there's been an explosion of out-of-game lore, so we have been able to see protoss in combat in numerous situations. I don't think I've seen any evidence that a regular protoss has as much power as you're suggesting... or, at least, that they can control that much power.

I think mind-killing, which is available only available to the dominions finest ghosts, 10/10 on the psi-meter, really only works on terrans, who have the most fragile minds (merging with khala kills them remember). Zerg just dont have complex minds. Telekinesis doesn't work that well on hydras, ghosts cant just throw hydras around with their mind.

I do think the average zealot has the psionic power of the most powerful ghost.

Your probably 100% right on the this part though

or, at least, that they can[not] control that much power.

I see it like this.
For the protoss, psionic powers aren't a genetic mutation, a 1 out of 100000 chance they're a everyday feature. Without psionic's, protoss can't even talk, they dont have mouths. Being born without psionics is like being born without a mouth for terran. Everyones mouth is more or less the same. But just because we all have the same mouth, doesnt mean we all can sing (well). You need a lot of training to sing well, with a tiny bit of hereditary talent. Except singing=killing people with your mind :P

For terran, only .001% of the population even are born with these figurative "mouths". But because they're so rare, the goverment trys to train every one of these to sing.

So while the average zealot probably has far greater psionic power then a ghost, most are not trained extensively in it.

[mr. peasant]

Their is no way a sentient race would have a maturation time of 100 years. Its not evolutionarily viable. I would assume protoss become "teenagers" no more then at 30 years of age. They would probably enter adulthood as early as 50. At the same respect, its not viable a race has elders who are functionally useless for most physical tasks for hundred of years. Protoss probably dont become "elderly" probably at least until 800 or so years.

I don't know about that. Time is very relative, especially in relation to one's lifespan. It could be argued that humans needing 20 years to mature to adulthood is entirely too long when you consider that in the past, people often did not live past their forties. Indeed, they were adults as soon as they hit puberty. But as life expectancy extended, so too was the time needed to attain adulthood socially.

Moreover, if you look at elephants, they have gestation periods of almost 2 years. To most people, that's a very long time to be pregnant and could even be deemed as nearly 'evolutionarily impractical'. Yet, that is the case all the same. Generally, the longer one lives, the longer it takes to physically mature. This is especially true when you take into account that the Protoss are considered not very prolific and few in numbers. This reeks strongly of 'evolutionary impracticality'.

Lastly, reaching adulthood is entirely dependent on one's longevity. It's not just a physical process but a psychosocial one as well. When there are people ten and even twenty times (someone under 50 years), it is almost certainly the case that the youngling would not have anywhere near the breath of experiences and maturity expected of an 'adult'.

[PhanttoM]

IMO for a sentient species with something like the khala, it is kinda ironic that they take so 'long' to mature.

But I also don't think his age should be changed. Like others, I'd simply like to see more (older) protoss characters to contrast Artanis' relative-to-rank age.
As pure.Wasted was in on, a character like Aldaris would have been perfect for this.

[mr. peasant]

But that's the thing. I didn't have much problem accepting Artanis as a Praetor or even when he was retconned as the Executor. That was believable as youthfulness has always been a consideration for a field commander. However, what I do find difficult to believe is him now taking on such a senior political post despite being such a junior. Should he be introduced a mentor figure or a fellow Protoss of greater age than he, the question that gets begged is why this other person isn't in charge in the first place. Unless the reason for this arrangement is addressed, it would seem rather odd.

[Kimera757]

I think mind-killing, which is available only available to the dominions finest ghosts, 10/10 on the psi-meter, really only works on terrans, who have the most fragile minds (merging with khala kills them remember). Zerg just dont have complex minds. Telekinesis doesn't work that well on hydras, ghosts cant just throw hydras around with their mind.

I can agree with most of this, but zerglings can be killed with telepathy. We've actually read about several times, even seeing it in Frontline (twice).

[Norfindel]

Isn't that Zamara's quote?

It's from Valerian Mengsk

That's Artanis. He's a named character. Or, more importantly, for universe purposes, a powerful character. You don't just give the Uraj to anyone.

I didn't consider him particularily powerful in BW. Maybe he was just a good military leader, but neve seen him doing anything psi, really. The same can be said about most Protoss characters, anyways. If you didn't see Tassadar's final sacrifice is he really more powerfull than any other HT?

Yes, they're powerful psychics, but you did notice that only high templar can use such powers. Other protoss can sometimes unleash such powers (eg dark templar, Tal'darim) but not with control. I don't think a zealot is going to start dishing out powers that might kill him and his fellows.

In fact, the quote says that all Protoss can unintentionally emit the disruptive ripples, the HT just learn to focus and intensify them into a Psionic Storm, that is absolutely overkill for a single target. Obviously they can blow a single target out of existence, just not shown anywhere,

I think we've seen plenty of situations where the ability to disable or kill an opponent at range would have been highly useful. Remember Fenix and the hydralisk? If his psi-blades (which are at least partially technology-powered) short out, why doesn't he just stun it or kill it? Or even enhance his shields? Or use telekinesis to throw it far enough away that he could escape?

We never seen too much battles, as to see what do the Protoss do exactly in battle. Even then, there can be motives to restrict psi use in combat. Maybe takes time, or shields eat too much energy to try anything.
Fenix's cinematic sucks, Blizzard doesn't even know why his blades failed. They said that themselves, IIRC.

There's that other quote. I don't think I've seen proof to back that up, which is important since this is a character's thoughts and not stated universe facts. Characters often "think" wrong. (It's almost hysterical how many terrans think neural resocialization is robust, for instance.)

Of course, the typical ghost has few powers by themselves; they can read minds and sense psionics, and that's it. I don't know if protoss can naturally sense psionics (we've seen ghosts sneak up on them a few times) but the typical protoss can mentally link with numerous others, already putting them beyond the typical ghost. But I don't see much evidence that the standard, generic zealot can match the more powerful ghosts, any more than I see evidence that even the most powerful ghosts can match a high templar.

Well, it was written, it's your choice to think it's only the character's thoughts, but Valerian should have precise information, if anyone has it.

Ever since 2006, there's been an explosion of out-of-game lore, so we have been able to see protoss in combat in numerous situations. I don't think I've seen any evidence that a regular protoss has as much power as you're suggesting... or, at least, that they cannot control that much power.

Sadly, the books aren't available here, so i was only able to read the old novels, and what's on internet.

[Pandonetho]

It's from Valerian Mengsk

Really? I too thought it was something Zamara said. Maybe my memory of the contents of the book just deteriorated.

[newcomplex]

But that's the thing. I didn't have much problem accepting Artanis as a Praetor or even when he was retconned as the Executor. That was believable as youthfulness has always been a consideration for a field commander. However, what I do find difficult to believe is him now taking on such a senior political post despite being such a junior. Should he be introduced a mentor figure or a fellow Protoss of greater age than he, the question that gets begged is why this other person isn't in charge in the first place. Unless the reason for this arrangement is addressed, it would seem rather odd.

George Washington sucked balls as a military commander, and was almost as bad as a president, but everyone liked him because he was handsome and tall and authoritative.

Emphasis on tall. Six feet was pretty damn impressive in the 1700's.

I think some kind of similar idea may be going on now. Even in our own race, actual quality of leadership isn't always have important as how impressive or charismatic they are.

That being said, I lol at the thought of artanis's face on a Barrack Obama campaign ad.

[Norfindel]

Really? I too thought it was something Zamara said. Maybe my memory of the contents of the book just deteriorated.

Maybe she said something like that herself, i had not the opportunity to read the new books, but the Valerian speech is from an excerpt from Shadow Hunters, which is available to read on the net.

[newcomplex]

Maybe she said something like that herself, i had not the opportunity to read the new books, but the Valerian speech is from an excerpt from Shadow Hunters, which is available to read on the net.

Could you tell me where shadow hunters is available on the internet? I've looked for a long time for it and couldnt find it. (Or do you mean only an excerpt from shadow hunters is available, not the whole book)