THOR and MARAUDER FIX

[Nicol Bolas]

so you like everything about the thor now? how it looks and how it plays

I've always liked how it looks. So impeccably Terran. Indeed, it's even more Terran than it was originally; back then, it only had 2 weapon systems. Now it has three, totaling 8 functional barrels.

As for its function, I like how it makes the Terran's Mech-playmore mobile. I like how it compliments a number of Terran builds, yet is expensive enough (particularly in gas) to allow alternative builds that don't involve them.

I'm very scared about the possibility of mass Thor drops to take out Hatcheries, though. Even so, it's something I'd want to see tested to decide whether it needs changing.

The Marauder is a unit the Terrans have needed for some time: an infantry ground specialist. The only concerns are with its sheer strength in that department; maybe it has too many Hp. Again, that's something that Blizzard will test and adjust through Beta.

My point is this. The Thor and Marauder are both at what I would consider Beta-level. They're functional, viable units in the Terran army. They compliment various builds. They have specific weaknesses. And the stats are not so overpowering currently that they win everything.

Any tweaking beyond this is something that needs a long, hard Beta test to work out. Premature balancing leads to the death of interesting concepts.

[SaharaDrac]

I've always liked how it looks. So impeccably Terran. Indeed, it's even more Terran than it was originally; back then, it only had 2 weapon systems. Now it has three, totaling 8 functional barrels.

As for its function, I like how it makes the Terran's Mech-playmore mobile. I like how it compliments a number of Terran builds, yet is expensive enough (particularly in gas) to allow alternative builds that don't involve them.

I'm very scared about the possibility of mass Thor drops to take out Hatcheries, though. Even so, it's something I'd want to see tested to decide whether it needs changing.

The Marauder is a unit the Terrans have needed for some time: an infantry ground specialist. The only concerns are with its sheer strength in that department; maybe it has too many Hp. Again, that's something that Blizzard will test and adjust through Beta.

My point is this. The Thor and Marauder are both at what I would consider Beta-level. They're functional, viable units in the Terran army. They compliment various builds. They have specific weaknesses. And the stats are not so overpowering currently that they win everything.

Any tweaking beyond this is something that needs a long, hard Beta test to work out. Premature balancing leads to the death of interesting concepts.

Oh sweet merciful Jesus. Thank you. THANK YOU.

[unentschieden]

Its 2+4+4=10 Barrels, 2 armcannons at the sides, 4 flak cannons on front and the 4 Artillery ones.

The only issue I have with the current Thor is it´s ability, otherwise Nicol nailed it. I´m not really concerned with "Mass Thors" Kim only had 4 at a time...

Regarding Marauders: Power and massive HP are actually a tradeoff. Marauders demolished their Targets because they used Stimpacks and were later on fried by Psistorm. Without Medics the HP loss from Stimpacks is actually a drawback (finally). Terrans will have to learn to be less drugaddicted.

[electricmole]

On the visual end, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree that the Thor needs some sort of "energy weapons" or whatever weapon upgrade it would receive.

Anything 'cool' that exists about the unit's visual identity comes precisely from its LACK of coolness. It's slow, it's unwieldy, it's awkward -- these are suggestions you made! and I agree with completely. It's a bunch of huge guns put together on a chassis, and some guy on a power-trip presses a button and it lurches in that direction for a while.

What you want from it makes it more Protoss, when it's one of the most identifiably, unabashedly Terran units on the field. Primitive. Cobbled together. It's a walking, talking Nuke. Not a walking, talking particle displacer, or something.

Well its not really cool if its mediocre. What Im saying its mediocre because the year is 2500 (not primitive), and a giant advanced looking mech like the thor needs something better than shells. its obvious the terran could easily implement energy weapons for this unit just like the wraith and battlecruisers have it. And its definitely not protoss if it has energy weapons, but if that is the reason why the thor has projectile weaponry instead of energy weaponry then that's too bad for the thor. I can't believe you sacrifice the thors weapon choice just for gameplay uniqueness and diversion among the three races. Again the bc and wraith have it in sc1, and they were never look alien or protoss at all.

Also blizzard or some fans think shells and projectiles is badass, i agree but not for this unit. Too much exaggeration with terran projectile weaponry is mediocre. Might as well give the battlecruisers uver flying canon balls.

Compared to other sci-fi mechs the thor is easily worthless even for its size to other mechs even smaller ones which have multiple weapon types which include energy weapons.

Hye Im actually trying to save the thor mech here. The thor needs an impressive weapon which you actually see. Right now it just looks like a giant marine with dual huge shotguns.

Slow has nothing to do with what type of weapon it can carry. Slow moving large vehicles or mechs are awesome.

[Pandonetho]

Dude quit spouting your obsession with the Thor like it's a fact. Yes, we all know you're obsessed with giant walkers and energy laser beams and whatnot, however, this isn't Starwars k? Terrans don't use lasers k? They use big ass guns with big ass shells and that's how they kill their enemies, not with mass lasers.

They're guys who love guns and big explosions, not high tech nerds like those Trekkies.

[electricmole]

says who? its not like you and other fanboys know what the exact terrans are about.

If you think they are all that and exaggerated then might as well hate the bc lasers and its ability to warpdrive, hovering vulture ala starwars motor bike, wraith lasers, teleporting beacons, the ion canon, etc.

The terran have laser and you know this. Its just a matter of choice where to put it on, and the thor is a clear candidate. Its huge, powerful, advance, and has all the parts to handle it.

Its the future and its sci-fi, giving the thor energy weapons does not make the terran less of a gritty man and more of a nerd.

They use bullets and shells because its practical, still usefull, and resourceful. But they can always use lasers and energy weapons when utmost needed just like the bc needs to have. This might as well be applied to their most powerful ground unit like the thor.

[Ghost_828]

says who? its not like you and other fanboys know what the exact terrans are about.

That argument works both ways.

I was going to post a paragraph detailing how a laser drains much more power than conventional ballistic weapons, and thus is more efficient for the Thor, but that would only lure the "It's a sci-fi game!" response.

Instead, I am agreeing with Nicol Bolas, pure.Wasted and Pandonetho.

[Quirel]

Advance apologies for the biting, sarcastic tone here, but as Wankey said:

Theorycrafting is great when you actually have a game to play. This is just a discussion that’ll never end ‘cause it’s my opinion vs yours and no way to really prove it.

Add to that the nearly anime-fanboy attitude of Electricmole, and we've got ourselves some fun here...

Theorycrafting FTL. The game isn’t even in beta and somehow you’ve figured out how to “fix” an assumed “problem".

If only we had a +- modding system, I'd make several more accounts just to + mod this guy.

+ Give the thor a slow charging energy blast attack or a red devil mega energy pulse blaster canon that deals massive damage against single unit as its normal attack. Kills tank in 2 shots. Kills roaches and marauders instantly.

Give it an energy base weapon to make the thing look more impressive. Shells and projectiles for this kind of heavy mech is just plain mediocre. Just look at it in BR4. The look of the giant thing is epic the attack is bland.

You know, I'm getting sick and tired of seeing this anime mentality applied to the Thor. I don't like the unit, but I KNOW that adding LAZZERZ! and NARUTU BLAZTZ! ain't going to make it better. If there's anything more bland or meh, it's giant, indestructible mechs with lasers and energy cannons coming out the...

OK, drop it.

so you like everything about the thor now? how it looks and how it plays

No. But I know that turning it into a Gundam or whatever the Hell you're thinking of ain't going to improve anything.

Well its not really cool if its mediocre. What Im saying its mediocre because the year is 2500 (not primitive), and a giant advanced looking mech like the thor needs something better than shells.

And energy weapons are so inherently better than shells, it would take a blind man to not realize that they're oh so much better?

Besides the fact, of course, that shells work well for artillery, given that they can fire in an arc? Or be guided after firing? And pack as much energy as a laser in the first place?

its obvious the terran could easily implement energy weapons for this unit just like the wraith and battlecruisers have it. And its definitely not protoss if it has energy weapons, but if that is the reason why the thor has projectile weaponry instead of energy weaponry then that's too bad for the thor.

Hey! Why are the Terran Marines still using SOLID SLUGS for their Gauss rifles? Get them some lazerz man! They're fighting with 500 year old technology!
OH MY GODZ! WHY ARE WE DEPLOYING ACTUAL PEOPLZ TO THE FRONT LINES! GET THE ROBOT ARMIES UP!

I can't believe you sacrifice the thors weapon choice just for gameplay uniqueness and diversion among the three races. Again the bc and wraith have it in sc1, and they were never look alien or protoss at all.

And I can't believe that you actually think that Jap anime mecha is a good model. A little too much StarCraft Manga has gone to your head, my friend.

Also blizzard or some fans think shells and projectiles is badass, i agree but not for this unit. Too much exaggeration with terran projectile weaponry is mediocre. Might as well give the battlecruisers uver flying canon balls.

Which would suck, given that the Battlecruiser and the Wraith BOTH fight up in space, where long engagement distances necessitate the speed-of-light lasers.

Since the Thor is a surface unit, meant to dish out overwhelming firepower on an unsuspecting base, the shells work fine.

Compared to other sci-fi mechs the thor is easily worthless even for its size to other mechs even smaller ones which have multiple weapon types which include energy weapons.

Not counting Japanese Anime/Manga, other universes have lasers because they have lasers. Oddly enough, the Rules of Cool, which say how much damage a given weapon system will do, do not apply across franchise boundaries.

Let's take an example of what I hope you are referring to. The Star Wars AT-ST, much smaller than the Thor (I believe. That thing was kinda lanky) was equipped with dual laser cannons.

In Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, we saw it blowing apart trees, but not much else. Sadly, whatever utility it might have had against feral teddy bears was diminished by the Stormtrooper Effect, where the Emperor's best legion was defeated by the aforementioned teddy bears.

The AT-ATs, despite being larger (possibly larger than the Thor, in height) with more room for power sources and larger weapons, were curiously deployed without artillery or air support.
And so, their weapons, though formidable, did not do the damage that a modern day artillery shell would have done.

Though long and not quite pertaining to the conversation, my point is thus:
Lasers may look KEWL! to an anime fanboy, but that doesn't mean they are going to perform better than artillery shells in the arena where artillery shells are used. Besides, a lot of people prefer a huge artillery gun over a little laser with a huge cooling system. I know, it's hard to believe, but you must try to understand.

Hye Im actually trying to save the thor mech here. The thor needs an impressive weapon which you actually see. Right now it just looks like a giant marine with dual huge shotguns.

As opposed to getting lasers, and looking like every other mech that comes out of Nippon?

says who? its not like you and other fanboys know what the exact terrans are about.

And you, of course, know more about the Terrans than the guys at Blizzard themselves.
My hat is off to you, oh Lord.

If you think they are all that and exaggerated then might as well hate the bc lasers and its ability to warpdrive, hovering vulture ala starwars motor bike, wraith lasers, teleporting beacons, the ion canon, etc.

Because all of a sudden, it's become an either-or battle. Either use 17th century cannon balls, or Trekkie (Because everybody KNOWS that Star Trek is so much better than any other sci-fi franchise) laser arrays.

The terran have laser and you know this. Its just a matter of choice where to put it on, and the thor is a clear candidate. Its huge, powerful, advance, and has all the parts to handle it.

And the need to use it, because lasers are automatically better than artillery shells in every conceivable application. Obviously.

Its the future and its sci-fi, giving the thor energy weapons does not make the terran less of a gritty man and more of a nerd.

Can I point something out to you?
This is Science Fiction. It is not the future. It is not the future. It is not the future. Repeated in case you somehow didn't understand it the first time around.

If this was the future, autonomous robots would be doing the Terran's fighting for them. If this was the future, biological Terrans would not exist, because all of humanity would have uploaded themselves into computers by now.

They use bullets and shells because its practical, still usefull, and resourceful. But they can always use lasers and energy weapons when utmost needed just like the bc needs to have. This might as well be applied to their most powerful ground unit like the thor.

Again, the Thor doesn't exactly NEED lasers, as opposed to more practical weapons such as artillery shells and rail guns.

[Santrega]

Terrans don't use lasers k?

Im not saying I agree with the OP, because I dont. But, I want you to rethink this statement...

Think about Battle Cruisers and Wraiths... and what they use...

[sandwich_bird]

Dude quit spouting your obsession with the Thor like it's a fact. Yes, we all know you're obsessed with giant walkers and energy laser beams and whatnot, however, this isn't Starwars k? Terrans don't use lasers k? They use big ass guns with big ass shells and that's how they kill their enemies, not with mass lasers.

They're guys who love guns and big explosions, not high tech nerds like those Trekkies.

I completly agree with this. Keep the motherfuckingly big ass shells and the explosions! Energy weapons can, sometime, be cool but you know, they should only be used by the Protoss so that we keep more diferences between the races. Terran = shells, Protoss = lasers