THOR and MARAUDER FIX

[ynggrashpr]

just a correction for the explanation of nippon. it is not the archaic version of japan, in fact it is still used today. nippon (or nihon) is the japanese name for japan. cheers.

[pure.Wasted]

If 1984 were written from the perspective of a different character, one of the many other upper class citizens who happened not to get into anything way over their head, all we'd have to say it was a dystopian reality was that there was government oppression. Plenty of people living in that society have absolutely no idea anything is wrong, and live perfectly happy lives.

But it isn't JUST a dystopia, it's practically the very definition of one.

I guess the problem here is that once we start to explore the definition of dystopia it seems like our world state right now would fall right in. Well, hell, I'm not sure that's incorrect.

[electricmole]

its fine for you coz it seems like you only care for the damn multiplayer gameplay. Gameplay threads is tghe one that waste our time! wait for the damn game.

Why did you read this thread. just read the op and you should be fine.

No value to the improvement of unit? Then what are design choices for? it is fine for you if the thor throws rocks instead?

Don't you think blizzard goes around and think about this kind of stuffs on making their units or making the damn whole game itself.

Why did they gave the thor a red beam coming out from its attack in the first place? Why did the they make the terratron with uver laser and power saw.

Dont worry you'll get your beta, a change in the thor appearance won't delay it much.

But dont play sc2 if the thor gets improved visually with new design or attack animation etc.

[pure.Wasted]

Guys can we cut down on the personal insults? Aesthetic discussions have their place just like theorycraft ones.

[mythology]

INTRO

As seen in BR4 the thor is massable and capable of handling almost all types of enemy units. It has decent ground damage and air damage. It also can act as a tank.

Together with the marauder, other units like the viking and tanks are most of the time unnecessary.

Originally the thor was presented as a very powerful attack unit with a major weakness, it moves extremely slow and also rotates slow while attacking. In BR4 none of this weakness are present.

The thor seems to have turned into a terran normal core massable attack units instead of making it a specialized unit which i prefer.

Why would you still make marines, banshee, viking etc in a straight fight if you have lots of minerals, just make plenty of thors since it really has no real weakness and has all the firepower.

So here is my thor fix. Pros and Cons. Purpose of it and counters against it.

i think this is just a over exaggerated reaction due to the terrans success vs protoss in br4. i know the thor + marauder + siege tanks + hellion + nukes seemed overwhelmingly successful, but i think it's the protoss players fault he lost not some inbalance.

i think if he had gone immortals instead of zealots to team up with his stalkers it would have helped vs that massive damage. he could have blinked a little more. as for the ghost nukes, a few photo cannons in the right places would have helped.

something to note, the colossi didn't help much. blizzard always saying wait till you get 3 of them when we never see more than 2 in a group in any game. if you watch br4 the colossi hit the terrans several times perfectly, but it seemed psi storm was more effective over the colossus.

THOR FIX

+Make the thor move epic slow when moving, its damn fitting. Siege tanks, warp rays, guardians will own this thing easily since it still has to move (epic slow) to be able to reach its attack range.

thats the point of it to march into siege tank and guardian fire and overcome it. if it moved slow it wouldn't work. sure banshee's and vikings could do the same job, but i think the thor can still do the job even if the enemy had support. warp rays do own it.

in br4 it did well vs psi storm so i say it might make a good decoy as reapers hit n run with mines.

+ Give the thor a slow charging energy blast attack or a red devil mega energy pulse blaster canon that deals massive damage against single unit as its normal attack. Kills tank in 2 shots. Kills roaches and marauders instantly.

So the main purpose of the thor is to destroy strong enemy units like tanks, colossus, ultralisk or any light ground units in few numbers easily except immortals.

Give it an energy base weapon to make the thing look more impressive. Shells and projectiles for this kind of heavy mech is just plain mediocre. Just look at it in BR4. The look of the giant thing is epic the attack is bland.

watching br4 the thor does/has/is all that said above. in lore the thor probably seems like it has siege tank's for arms but in the game that's the sieges tank's job. it's massive damage ability isn't as flashy as psi storm but it works well as you see it used it on the protoss nexus and the protoss infantry.

i know what you want. basically what you want is what the imperial guard basilisk tank is in the dawn of war game. when the thing pops out of the factory it says "you called for an earth shaker?." it shoots like a siege tank and has a massive damage aoe ability. it moves slow and when it shoots all units go flying or dieing and the earth it hits explodes. you can only get a small limited number of these tanks because if you could spam them you could make the whole screen explode.

+ Another important weakness and so that the energy beam visual will work is to make the thor unable attack enemies at close or melee range.

Zealot and other melee units attacking as thor can never be attack back by the thor. The thor wont fire its beam at nearby enemies just like the siege tank in siege mode. Micro here for the big fella.

+ The above mentioned weakness actually presented another purpose for the thor mech which is to act as a tank. So give the thor more hp than usual.

+ Remove the back flak canons because its the one that makes the crucio tanks sometimes useless. It looks awful and trying hard as well. Replace it to an uver missile launch pod to attack enemy light air units.

The thor don't need ground splash damage, its one of its weakness and separates its from the ultralisk, colosus, and archons which all do splash damage. Ground splash damage is already the tanks role.

+ The thor act now as a specialized powerful unit and is not meant to be mass produce unless you are facing mass light air units. The thor is there to act as a tank for your troops and to take down strong enemy units like archons, tanks, colossus.

+ Battlecruiser (w/ yamato) or any heavy armored air units, Guardian, lurkers, immortals, warp rays, tanks (siege mode), Dark templar, mass light ground units close to the thor are the perfect counters.

+ Ultralisk, Colossus, Archon, are strong AOE damage dealer, the thor deals massive damage against single unit. Big difference.

sounds like your tweaks would make the thor replace the siege tank, which would be cut with a new unit.

MARAUDER FIX[/B]

+ Remove the bonus damage against armored enemy of the marauder.

It conflicts with the siege tank and the thor. Without it the marauders will not be massed going up against all enemy ground units.

+ Keep the ice slowing effect and give it a little splash AOE (only slowing not actual damage).

+ Marines with shield should have almost the same hp as the marauder at a very lower cost.

The current marauder being effective at both light and armored ground units makes the marines useless. So lets even up the ratio so that both units will be mix most of the time. yeh and remove its bonus damage against armored units.

i don't think marauders replace marines. as great as the marauder might be it's not better than stimmed marines it's just situational. like how they went for hellions instead of marines to fight off the zealots.

[Krikkitone]

Well I think the best ... and most sensible attacks for the Thor would be
Guns for the standard GtG and GtA

Energy weapon for the special attack (since it immobilizes the target how about a standard blue-white 'ion beam' with pulses of power moving from thor to target. You went through a bunch of trouble to disable various terran Ion cannons in the Sc1/BW campaigns.)

for actual gameplay I think they are about right... I might increase the GtG damage but increase the cooldown so the dps stayed the same


As for the Marauder, I think the simple thing to do is eliminate stim from it, heavier slower attacks fit it better (and if you keep a couple Medivacs with them, 10 hp is minimal out of 125 for a massive boost in attack speed)


Another thing would be to make sure there are a decent number of Light Ground combat units (that could fight the Marauder)... right now it seems to be
Marine, Reaper, Ghost, ?Hellion?
Zergling, Hydralisk, Infester*
Zealot, D.Templar, High Templar*, [I'd add Archon]

*These aren't really combat units so they don't really count as normal counters

[n00bonicPlague]

I will admit that having stim on the Marauder is a bit odd to me.

I wonder if it could do just fine without it.

Perhaps give it a different kind of upgrade if needed?

[pure.Wasted]

I will admit that having stim on the Marauder is a bit odd to me.

I wonder if it could do just fine without it.

Perhaps give it a different kind of upgrade if needed?

That gets very counter-intuitive very fast. How do you decide which infantry gets it and which doesn't? Is there a reason Marauders can't have it but Reapers can? It's like giving the Protoss a speed boost upgrade for air units, but then only allowing the Warp Ray and Mothership to have access to it. The units have nothing in common -- it's inelegant game design.

Right now they allow all infantry but support (Medic, Ghost) to Stim. It seems pretty straight-forward, so if there's any imbalance at work I'd rather they fix the unit rather than remove an ability it by all rights should have access to.

[Aldrius]

To me, stim just makes the Marauder a lot more flexible. It may be overpowered in the later tiers, but I think it allows, to a certain degree for you to choose what you want your Marauders to be. Glass cannons? (Faster movement and rate of fire, but less HP) or solid tanking units (More HP, lower rate of fire/movement.)

Whole thing gets messed up when we get into med-evac, but yeah...

[Pandonetho]

I agree with pure.Wasted.

People need to stop thinking about the lazy way out (OMFG IT LOOKS IMBA REMOVE IT).

That seems to be the argument for many people around here.