Starcraft reboot ideas discussion thread

[sandwich_bird]

Also, why won't it work with just a void blade (or void powers in general)? Z's void blade seemed to be enough to end the neo-Overmind in BW. And yes, I know the irony in that Enumerate is supposed to ignore most of actual BW, making me refer to it as evidence kinda moot but what the hey!

Well it's just that the overmind is this giant mountain-sized structure so unless the blade is like a touch of death; he'd have to hack away for days. Even then, presumably that wouldn't be enough as it would keep growing faster than Z is capable of cutting. It just doesn't work in that universe. I mean, if it was sc2, Z would probably kamehameha a path to the overmind's "core" and then heroically plunge his blade in the heart or something but lets avoid these kind of scenarios

[Nissa]

Tassadar isn’t a hot head. He knew Duke wouldn’t back down and that threatening him was his only option. Aldaris was being an imbecile that was actively helping doom the Protoss race and the patience Tassadar showed still bordered on saint-like.

Wouldn't back down? What are you talking about? All Duke said was that Tassadar was violating Terran airspace. If Duke had violent intentions in this situation, he wouldn't have even bothered talking to Tassadar. He would have simply fought back. By speaking to Tassadar, he was offering Tassadar a chance to back off. Not to mention that Tass' statement in that moment was far more threatening than the situation warranted. If he had answered peacefully, they could have resolved the situation.

[Mislagnissa]

I will address the questions raised by this thread in chunks and introduce more elements from EN, the canon EU, and my personal thoughts.

The act of killing the Overmind

Enumerate explains Zeratul and three others killing the Overmind by traveling into its physical form and… releasing a psychic nuke, I guess? It makes about as much sense as crashing a carrier charged with void magic into it. I always interpreted attacking their physical form with void blades as being like hacking a computer network through an administrator computer, since by original manual logic the overmind/cerebrates are supposed to represent the gestalt consciousness of their minions.

I always imagined Zeratul’s fight with Zasz to be much more interesting that the crapfest we saw in the Queen of Blades novel. I imagined that Zeratul and some friends would follow the Zerg’s psychic signals to a central source and meeting Zasz. Zasz effortlessly slaughters them with his minions and psychic powers, but leaves Zeratul alive so he can mind rape him. Incidentally, this reveals some of Zasz’s secrets to Zeratul a la when Kylo Ren is interrogating Rey in The Force Awakens. Zeratul fights the pain and summons a psychic storm to annihilate everything nearby, and only survives at the last minute when a dark pylon recalls him. The psychic storm shreds Zasz’s personality by basically sending a gigantic wave of SHEER AGONY through the brain bug, secondary agents and every minion at once, sending the Garm into a permanent homicidal frenzy.

EDIT: This creates some irony as psychic storms were precisely the reason the nerazim were exiled.

In EN, a similar event happens when the Overmind is killed. This sends out a massive wave of agony which drives all the broods insane in a manner pretty much identical to feral zerg. The EN text distinguishes between insane and feral broods, but I consider this semantics. The level of damage scales with the distance from the Overmind, with the broods on Aiur going completely feral while those in the Koprulu sector remain relatively stable except for deciding to fight for the position of new Overmind.

Another element which comes into play is that feral/insane broods may eventually regain a modicum of sanity. If the brood has an existing brain bug, mega-mind or group of psi-colonies, this process occurs much faster. Without the unifying influence of the Overmind they are prone to evolving in bizarre directions (another one of the many, many possible subplots presented in EN's full 150 page treatment).

Zerg immortality and characters
SC2 has Kerry self-resurrecting in defiance of previously established lore, so I really have no problem making all Zerg immortal by downloading their shared consciousness into new bodies. If a brain bug is killed without breaking the hive mind, they will eventually just spawn a new one since the hive mind is their real consciousness. In Retribution, the brood is vulnerable in the interim, which I prefer over instant replacement due to the better story opportunities.

I have no problem having simple queens and overlords display the same level of intelligence according to Zerg commanders in SC2. The original manual states the gargantis proximae were smart enough to use language, and after eating the xel'naga the overmind increased the intelligence of overlords and queens even further. It is easier to insert new Zerg characters this way without giving them undue influence on the army. Using Leovaunt's RPG as a guideline: overlords, queens and infestors are command strains (secondary agents in manual parlance).

According to the Stukov missions, a single brood could have multiple cerebrates, so I am stealing that. It is easy enough to say that broods have senior and junior cerebrates. While technically equivalent in the hierarchy, they show deference.

Protoss leadership

We could argue about Tassadar's leadership skills forever. What is true is that he is part of a younger, open-minded generation and that he is heralded as the twilight messiah by the nerazim. Like any real person, he is flawed. All this could be explored in a campaign or series of campaigns.

Raszagal (who is basically the elected president of the Nerazim republic or whatever their highest level of government is, I imagine them as being loosely allied democratic republics) is going senile, which could be explored in a detailed fashion similar to the character Yu from Stargate SG-1.

Fenix, unfortunately, might die assisting in the evacuation of Aiur since Raynor was not present to help him. However, this could be avoided with different writing or something. Something something Antioch Chronicles.

The tal'darim, who I interpret as being a tribe of the Nerazim who use drugs rather than circumcision (since the manual states the First Age Protoss had "meta-neural study" that let them break the Proto-Khala in the first place), could also play a role. Where the rest of the Nerazim simply want to live in peace without losing their cultural distinctions (since the Khala seemingly causes mob mentality a la tumblr), the Tal'darim miss the glory days of the Aeon of Strife when they went around looting and murdering and generally ruling like petty tyrants. Ulrezaj is basically their messiah and he's a fanatic who wants to exterminate the Aiur Protoss/Firstborn/Khalai/Khalanim/Khalaites/whatever.

Protoss/Terran relations
The Terrans almost certainly hold a grudge against the Firstborn for glassing inhabited planets. Humans are emotional and won't care that there were justifiable reasons. All they'll see are bloodthirsty psychos like Syndrea and arrogant jerks like Aldaris. They could probably make common cause with the templar and nerazim who fought back against the Judicators during the Zerg invasion of Koprulu. Ulrezaj would almost certainly use this to get Terrans to ally with him.

While large-scale alliances or conflicts are unlikely to occur until the conclusion of the brood wars due to Koprulu being on the frontier of Protoss space, small scale alliances like Andraxxus teaming up with Jack Frost, Ulrezaj presumably financing Alan Schezar, or shadow hunters joining the Kimeran pirates are likely to occur.

Protoss Empires
The Protoss had an empire during the First Age and Aeon of Strife even in canon, e.g. planet Gyras. EN takes more of an interest in these worlds by making them host to ancient ruins and having the Zerg invasion target the whole of Protoss space, including both Khala worlds and the Nerazim's nomadic waypoints.

Aiur serves as the center of the Zerg assimilation effort because the Zerg are religious in a sense, though they glorify themselves rather than any imagined deity. The Overmind implants a proxy on the surface to oversee the assault on the Psi Matrix.

Khala worlds are invaded to both occupy the templar and harvest khaydarin crystals for electronic warfare.

Nerazim way points are invaded to keep their void magic from interfering. Nerazim are nomadic, and like real nomads they typically migrate in predictable loops that follow the flora and fauna they subsist on. For those who do not understand the nomadic lifestyle, these way points are called home worlds. Nerazim are also religious and have holy places, such as shrine world Shakuras. (I am ignoring the retcons about Protoss being photosynthetic; the original manual states they were hunters who evolved telepathy to better hunt.)

Archaeology
EN makes archaeology, a la Retribution, a major plot point. While there are some xel'naga ruins, the ruins of the first Protoss empire hold much more importance. The Aeon of Strife reduced the Protoss to a shadow of their former glory, and the Zerg are deeply afraid of the modern Protoss, much less the ancient Protoss. So the Zerg send broods to hunt down relics and keep them out of the hands of their enemies.

This would fix a number of plot holes from SC2. The Purifiers do not make sense, since the Judicators would probably have them exterminated rather than hidden away. The motherships and colossi hidden around make no sense since they would most likely be employed during the Zerg's invasion of the Khala worlds. I would rationalize these as being relics of the First Age, since in SC1 manual canon the Protoss only made real progress during the First Age and the Second Age was mostly reverse engineering this stuff and reclaiming the worlds and colonies they had lost.

Another thing I would change is the temple on Shakuras. I dislike the deus ex machina attitude taken toward xel'naga relics in the Metzen and post-Metzen era of writing, so I would just make it a direct copy of the superweapon on Dakara in Stargate SG-1. The fluff explanation is that it is a terraforming device built by the Protoss of the first age, and one of the functions it uses to facilitate this is the annihilation of specified biochemistries. The Protoss and Zerg fight over it, since either could use it to destroy the other without killing themselves in the process. It cannot turn zerg into humans, steal "life force" (whatever that is), resurrect the dead, make coffee or whatever else deus ex machinas are expected to do.

Enslavers
Alan Schezar, Ulrezaj and the new Umojans make enslavement of Zerg broods a major plot point. I do not think I need to elaborate more on this.

EN additionally mentions subplots where khaydarin crystals and argus crystals (the nerazim substitute for khaydarin) are used in experiments to enslave Zerg. This could be explored in a fair amount of detail, a la Enslavers and Gradius' Subjection.

The "fragile alliance" seen in Retribution would make more sense as purifiers enslaved by Zerg (which is a really interesting concept I think).

There's an Enslavers Redux custom campaign for SC2 which adapts the original Enslavers and the Dark Templar Saga books into a single narrative. It would need rewriting to fit into the EN chronology, namely by removing Duran, Amon and Kerry, but this should be fairly easy given the lack of voice acting.

The Fist of Redemption
The Fist of Redemption is a cult of Zerg worshipers that show up in Insurrection, which are similar to the plot of the old custom campaign Shifters. I really think it makes sense that such beliefs would spread throughout Koprulu during the Great War and cause all sorts of problems.

The Terran characters

With Kerry not present on Char calling Arcturus and Raynor, Raynor stays in the Koprulu sector and leads rebellions as he does in Wings of Liberty. You could pretty much recycle all the side missions from WoL and make a coherent plot for EN.

Edmund Duke never visits Char and never gets killed by Kerry. He could probably play a bigger role in the story, maybe have campaigns just about him or his subordinates.

According to the EU Raynor had a son named John and a wife named Lydia. John apparently died in a shuttle accident, but this is implied to have been faked so he was inducted into the Ghost Program. Lydia died of grief, which leaves room for Ariel Hanson to step in. Since the Ghost Academy was on Tarsonis when it fell to the Zerg, little Johnny was probably infested and could reappear in the future if desired.


Time periods
EN has a messier chronology than canon's weirdly neat "phases", since it takes place across many regions of space and doesn't have any periods of time where nothing of significance happens. The Koprulu sector, and eventually Protoss space as a whole, enters a constant state of war. When empires are not fighting, they are preparing new weapons.

EN doesn't respect the official dates at all or include any specific measurement of time. That said, the official dates are often hilarious short or unrealistic for what is supposed to be a galactic war with unimaginably huge logistics.

Terrans first discovered the Zerg in 2487. The major governments immediately started experimenting on them. The Confederacy saw a potential weapon, while the Umojans saw an invading alien force. The Confederacy laced water supplies on frontier worlds with "cholera" to deflect attention; while supposedly intended to depopulate the frontier worlds (which would foolishly increase attention), this most likely resulted in a massive humanitarian crisis and civil strife due to the influx of refugees. This makes the sector ripe for infestation.

While the cover ups are happening, the KMC is dealing with the Zerg, since many of the colonies being invaded are mining colonies. Contrary to canon, in EN this does not go very well for them. Too late do the Terrans learn that conventional tactics do not work and break out the fleets and nukes.

The Confederacy's use of psi-emitters lights the power keg by attracting the Zerg fleets. While the Confederacy assumed the psi-emitters attracted Zerg by signals mimicking their own telepathy (mentioned in Liberty's Crusade), the truth was they were just ringing giant dinner bells. The Zerg came searching for psychics and follow the signals to find them.

The Great War starts, the Protoss appear and start glassing worlds, civil strife tears the Terrans apart, and all kinds of crazy, story-worthy stuff happens. Dark templar follow the Zerg probes and start testing themselves against small groups of zerg or joining Terran pirate gangs, Jack Frost fights the Fist of Judgment on Brontes IV, judicator Syndrea starts a civil war against executor Andraxxus, Arcturus takes advantage of the strife to seize power, Alan Schezar meets up with Ulrezaj and tries to capture and enslave a lone cerebrate, etc.

Then after the Zerg get what they want, most of the broods leave to experiment on various hive worlds including but not limited to Char. This period is not really explored in detail, but it ends when the dark templar arrive on the hive worlds and start mucking things up. Using the intel leaked by Zeratul and possibly other templar, the Zerg launch an invasion of the Protoss empire, as I mentioned previously.

What is never really explained, in either canon or EN, is why the Koprulu Expeditionary Force is recalled after the fall of Tarsonis nor why some of them remain in Koprulu for an extended period. I can understand the scandal and embarrassment caused by Tassadar's disobedience, Syndrea's insurrection, Andraxxus' alliance with humans, and losing to the Zerg due to incompetence (as conventional tactics emphatically do not work against them), but the Zerg still need to be dealt with. What are the Judicators planning to do? Could we please get a narrative from their perspective that doesn't portray them as crazy fanatics?

At the same time, the Terrans united under the Dominion are trying to deal with the remaining Zerg. It is standard practice for the Zerg to exterminate species they have no use for, like the rest of the humans. However, they also deal with continuing civil strife on the part of the rebels (who are secretly funded by the Umojans).

After the Overmind's death, the brain bugs, psi-colonies and mega-minds duke it out for control. At the same time the Terrans and Protoss try to deal with the Zerg by enslaving and/or exterminating them, while at the same time dealing with their own civil wars. Then the Overmind is resurrected and the EN timeline just stops.

Conspiracies
There's a Starcraft: Reborn mod which incorporates some elements of the EU into the SC1 narrative (along with the nonsense from the retcons). What I found interesting what the first original cutscene which depicts the Gantrithor entering orbit of Chau Sara only for three battlecruisers to appear and open fire without provocation, before calling in the fleet to glass the planet. Canon is contradictory with regard to the state of Chau Sara at the time, with difference sources claiming it was overrun by Zerg, the Terrans were oblivious, the Terrans were fighting back, or some combination thereof.

Given that the Confederacy had their whole conspiracy involving "cholera" and psi-emitters that may have started the Great War in the first place, the battlecruisers make a fair amount of sense. Alternately, they were trying to deal with their problem (since by this time the Terrans had realized conventional tactics do not work)

According to Liberty's Crusade the Confederacy learned the name of the Zerg from telepathic experiments and knew the name of the Protoss but did not reveal how they knew, though this is implied to have been because Tassadar hailed the Terrans to explain his actions but this was covered up by the Confederacy.

According to the short story Revelations Tassadar was leading rescue teams on the surface of Mar Sara in the days before it was glassed, which is referenced nowhere else in the games or the EU (though it is consistent with the cut missions where he appears).

Conclusion
There's a huge amount more, but that's all I have the strength for right now.

Sandwich mentioned in another thread that EN feels too restricting. I do not really understand that, considering all the choice that is presented above. Sure it is infeasible to keep track of every single possible plot point, but most plot points are only relevant to campaign set in specific times and places. I myself pick and choose while remaining consistent with the overall timeline, and even ignore minor things I disagree with (like EN's bizarre choice to remove queens from the hierarchy, or the unmemorable names for Zerg). Could you elaborate?

[sandwich_bird]

I always imagined Zeratul’s fight with Zasz to be much more interesting that the crapfest we saw in the Queen of Blades novel. I imagined that Zeratul and some friends would follow the Zerg’s psychic signals to a central source and meeting Zasz. Zasz effortlessly slaughters them with his minions and psychic powers, but leaves Zeratul alive so he can mind rape him. Incidentally, this reveals some of Zasz’s secrets to Zeratul a la when Kylo Ren is interrogating Rey in The Force Awakens. Zeratul fights the pain and summons a psychic storm to annihilate everything nearby, and only survives at the last minute when a dark pylon recalls him. The psychic storm shreds Zasz’s personality by basically sending a gigantic wave of SHEER AGONY through the brain bug, secondary agents and every minion at once, sending the Garm into a permanent homicidal frenzy.

That is pretty good stuff actually.

Sandwich mentioned in another thread that EN feels too restricting. I do not really understand that, considering all the choice that is presented above. Sure it is infeasible to keep track of every single possible plot point, but most plot points are only relevant to campaign set in specific times and places. I myself pick and choose while remaining consistent with the overall timeline, and even ignore minor things I disagree with (like EN's bizarre choice to remove queens from the hierarchy, or the unmemorable names for Zerg). Could you elaborate?

A pre-made timeline is fundamentally restrictive. I'm stuck making a story that is already told on a macro level and that takes away a lot of the fun out of it. I'm more willing if I'm already invested in the story but so far that's not the case since, like we pointed out in that other thread, enumerate hasn't been sold yet.

On top of that, there are restrictions down to the unit level. Enumerate introduce a whole bunch of units, upgrades and etc which affects the gameplay significantly. I could just ignore them of course but then what's the point of following a guide if I'm just gonna do my own thing anyways?

[Gradius]

Wouldn't back down? What are you talking about? All Duke said was that Tassadar was violating Terran airspace. If Duke had violent intentions in this situation, he wouldn't have even bothered talking to Tassadar. He would have simply fought back. By speaking to Tassadar, he was offering Tassadar a chance to back off. Not to mention that Tass' statement in that moment was far more threatening than the situation warranted. If he had answered peacefully, they could have resolved the situation.

Yeah I really see Duke swallowing his pride and coming to a mutually beneficial solution lmao.

Resolving the situation includes Tassadar leaving immediately and that’s just not an option.

[Mislagnissa]

That is pretty good stuff actually.

I used a mind over matter explanation for why the Zerg did not always use brood mothers. Zerg use a parallel processing network to boost their signal strength, so a cerebrate can essentially channel the collective mental energy of its brood to achieve amazing feats. A zealot may be god-like compared to individual Zerg, but a brood is god-like compared to individual zealots.

The reason why humans are so valuable is because they have more combat power per pound. While their processing power is equivalent to that of Zerg (so they are redundant as commanders, as three or so human brains are equivalent to an overlord), a psychic human brain the size of a cerebrate can create psychic storms (among other possible applications). Just imagine what a protoss brain of that size could accomplish!

A pre-made timeline is fundamentally restrictive. I'm stuck making a story that is already told on a macro level and that takes away a lot of the fun out of it. I'm more willing if I'm already invested in the story but so far that's not the case since, like we pointed out in that other thread, enumerate hasn't been sold yet.

You could say the same about the canon timeline, or even Warhammer 40k (which has thousands of books written for it). I cannot imagine many stories that could not be easily fit into EN chronology. In fact, many custom campaigns strike me as more sensible within EN, like the Flame Knives and Annihilation.

Look at Insurrection and Retribution. They have their own stories that take place within canon, albeit fast and loose. I rarely see custom campaigns that are comparable, in the sense that most custom campaigns involve characters from SC1 in some way and needlessly restrict themselves.

EN was written specifically to give map makers freedom to tell diverse stories while still able to pretend they take place in the same universe. The events of the timeline are intended to be examples and plot hooks, not limitations. That's why the scale has been amped up to hundreds of planets.

Could you give me examples of campaigns which would be unfairly restricted by the EN chronology compared to canon? The broad strokes of EN are, oddly enough, almost identical to canon. The Overmind being resurrected is the same as Amon being resurrected! I even found incorporating taldarim and purifiers even easier than canon!

The problem for me is figuring out where to stop, not how restrictive anything is.

On top of that, there are restrictions down to the unit level. Enumerate introduce a whole bunch of units, upgrades and etc which affects the gameplay significantly. I could just ignore them of course but then what's the point of following a guide if I'm just gonna do my own thing anyways?

I do not see a problem here. If you want to make different tech trees to give different factions their own flair then that's great, but if that's not a selling point of your campaign then why worry?

[Mislagnissa]

Interesting. If it every turns into a story, I'll read it, but for the moment it's a bit too generic to critique.

I'm more willing if I'm already invested in the story but so far that's not the case since, like we pointed out in that other thread, enumerate hasn't been sold yet.

(Sorry if I come as a rude or something, I am currently frazzled after the workday.)

A story? This is a not a story, this is a massive shared universe deal involving hundreds and hundreds of planets, many billions of Terrans and Protoss, and quite literally countless numbers of Zerg. There is material here enough for many hundreds of campaigns. You may have been spoiled by the "small world syndrome" in canon, but EN is a full-scale galactic war (technically 1/8 of the galaxy but that's still 25-50 billion stars and trillions of planets involved). If you are not already invested there is nothing I can do to convince you to become invested. As a single person I cannot possibly hope to do it justice within my lifespan: any single story I write would be nothing but a tiny microcosm that could not include any of the thousands upon thousands of subplots involved.

I already have my hands full with two custom campaigns, only one of which has been drafted and is being produced while the other still needs a script. The one which is currently being produced takes place on Mar Sara in the weeks before purification so the changes in the EN chronology don't even come into play yet, while the other is about a single Dominion/Umojan Zerg experiment (out of the hundreds that possibly exist). If you want a story to critique or invest in, then you will have to write dozens of them by yourself. I simply cannot map that fast, especially given that these are my first maps.

Have a nice day!

[Turalyon]

Well it's just that the overmind is this giant mountain-sized structure so unless the blade is like a touch of death; he'd have to hack away for days. Even then, presumably that wouldn't be enough as it would keep growing faster than Z is capable of cutting. It just doesn't work in that universe.

...And yet this is what happens in BW...

[sandwich_bird]

...And yet this is what happens in BW...

I don't like it either To be fair, it was a different situation. It was a young overmind so not fully grown; probably smaller. Also it happens in game which is not always the definitive canon as it's variable in its execution and is visually restrictive.

If you are not already invested there is nothing I can do to convince you to become invested.

Pretty much. But I am looking forward to your campaigns though.

[Turalyon]

Sorry Bird, I just couldn't resist the piss-take opportunities...

To be fair, it was a different situation. It was a young overmind so not fully grown; probably smaller.

A giant mountain-sized structure is not ok, but a half/quarter giant mountain sized structure is. Makes perfect sense!

Also it happens in game which is not always the definitive canon as it's variable in its execution and is visually restrictive.

Huh, so we're supposed to see Zeratul's game unit icon in the mission as a spaceship then? Gotcha!