Starcraft reboot ideas discussion thread

[Nissa]

They're on the brink of annihilation and would be stupid to refuse help. Especially Tassadar who's more open-minded. What the Judicator think doesn't matter at that point.

It's more complicated than that, though. For one thing, the presence of humans means the presence of people capable of having a great opportunity to steal their tech. Not to mention that fleeing Aiur was in fact a possibility, so that annihilation wasn't technically on the table. Losing their homeworld was the bigger issue. Given that the manual states they had several planets, they aren't on the brink of annihilation.

That, and it's not just the Judicator who have an opinion. As much as other Protoss may not hate humans, they won't necessarily want lots of humans they know nothing about on their world. That, and the Judicator were never the only ones who hated humans. Tassadar was the exception, not the rule. Even then, Tassadar knew and trusted Raynor and co. He doesn't know the Umojans/Morians.

And all that is assuming that the Umojans/Morians even want to go to Aiur to help. Given the bad blood between humans and 'Toss, it's highly likely that most would refuse and claim that the Protoss deserve it for what they did to human worlds.

[sandwich_bird]

What about a player's choice based branching story line? SC1 + BW are very well suited for it. You're already part of the game and there's already tons of potential choices that wouldn't necessarily make totally incompatible plots(the less divergent, the more cost effective but divergent enough to be interesting). Some obvious ones: siding with the confeds instead of Mengsk. Rebelling against Mengsk sooner or not at all. Supporting Mengsk and then backstabbing him to take his place Supporting Tassadar or killing him. Fighting with other cerebrates. Infesting Kerrigan or killing her. etc etc etc.

[Mislagnissa]

Are we going solely by the manual or are we introducing the lost protoss empire from the games? In the manual the protoss never declined but in the games they did and left ruins and artifacts everywhere. The only way to reconcile this would be to move the lost empire from the games to prior/during the aeon of strife in the manual timeline.

Are we picking up forgotten plot points like the Umojans seeking an alliance with the Protoss or the schism between the factions led by Ara and Akilae over humanity's fate?

How advanced are the races in respect to one another? How much territory do they hold? What is their force composition? How fast are their FTL drives? Those sorts of things are important if you do not want the plot to be arbitrary and inconsistent.

If Earth is involved, then I assume we are following the 1996 version of that plot point where they have the same tech and values as Koprulu? If they have the psychic mutations too, since they are not nazis, then realistically the zerg should be invading all of human space and not just Koprulu. In this case, Earth and its territories effectively become a replacement for the canon Koprulu.

An infested human being a powerful entity is dumb when every other infested Terran is a driveling zombie. Plus what Mag said. Kerrigan is there to round out the Zerg cast and be a foil for celebrates, not to be some one woman army powerhouse.

I was under the impression the zerg invaded Koprulu to harvest people for research and development. Infested units should logically only appear during the initial invasion phase, not deployed as standard parts of the zerg forces against other species.

When the zerg are invading the protoss empire and its hundreds or thousands of worlds, they should be deploying new breeds containing what they learned from vivisecting humans. These are not limited to ground troops with a humanoid body plan and psychic powers, since we know that the zerg mix and match genes in every breed (e.g. the spore colony uses sense organs based on overlord anatomy).

Why would we keep Kerry in a leadership position beyond the fact that canon did it first? Quite honestly I do not believe it is physically possible for a terran, infested or not, to control anything. All zerg creatures that exert control (even in the fluff only) are gigantic and have gigantic brains. Even the mightiest control brains are overwhelmed and driven to serve the inherent biological drives of the zerg. It makes sense that the control brains might use Kerry as a mouthpiece, but it does not make sense for her to exert any control and especially not defy the drives of the zerg in any way.

It's more complicated than that, though. For one thing, the presence of humans means the presence of people capable of having a great opportunity to steal their tech. Not to mention that fleeing Aiur was in fact a possibility, so that annihilation wasn't technically on the table. Losing their homeworld was the bigger issue. Given that the manual states they had several planets, they aren't on the brink of annihilation.

That, and it's not just the Judicator who have an opinion. As much as other Protoss may not hate humans, they won't necessarily want lots of humans they know nothing about on their world. That, and the Judicator were never the only ones who hated humans. Tassadar was the exception, not the rule. Even then, Tassadar knew and trusted Raynor and co. He doesn't know the Umojans/Morians.

And all that is assuming that the Umojans/Morians even want to go to Aiur to help. Given the bad blood between humans and 'Toss, it's highly likely that most would refuse and claim that the Protoss deserve it for what they did to human worlds.

I cannot take the idea of humans fighting in the galactic war seriously. They are not comparable to either the zerg or the protoss and they survive because of their psychological differences and willingness to reverse engineer the tech of the foes.

Furthermore, it makes no sense for the terrans to suddenly abandon Koprulu to fight a war happening tens of thousands of light years away. Can their FTL drives cover that distance in a reasonable amount of time? I know the games give FTL drives an arbitrarily infinite speed, but if we are trying to be remotely believable we cannot have that.

There is no reason why the protoss and zerg would stop fighting in the Koprulu sector. The zerg do not leave survivors if they can help it (the manual mentions they exterminate species they do not assimilate) and according to the manual's fluff the protoss are not wimps who can be trivially beaten like they were in the game. The entire reason the the zerg invaded Koprulu was because humans had the potential to be effective weapons against the protoss.

What about a player's choice based branching story line? SC1 + BW are very well suited for it. You're already part of the game and there's already tons of potential choices that wouldn't necessarily make totally incompatible plots(the less divergent, the more cost effective but divergent enough to be interesting). Some obvious ones: siding with the confeds instead of Mengsk. Rebelling against Mengsk sooner or not at all. Supporting Mengsk and then backstabbing him to take his place Supporting Tassadar or killing him. Fighting with other cerebrates. Infesting Kerrigan or killing her. etc etc etc.

I do not think this is feasible outside of a CRPG or a visual novel.

I feel it would be better to not focus on a specific cast for the entirety of the story. That turned canon into a bland fantasy epic. This is one the problems I have with The Expanse, especially once the story becomes meta-fictional and starts pointing it out.

If we want to explore all these sorts of ideas, it would be better to feature multiple different stories going on against the backdrop of the koprulu war. Instead of having a few literal mythic heroes controlling the fate of the universe, we have all these tiny commanders and soldiers whose actions seem small and inconsequential but end up deciding the fate of the universe due to the butterfly effect yet nobody but the audience knows this.

[Nissa]

Mags, you're quoting the wrong person. I am also arguing against the notion of Umojans/Morians fighting on Aiur. If you want to talk about them fighting elsewhere, well, that's not what me and Gradius were talking about.

[sandwich_bird]

I do not think this is feasible outside of a CRPG or a visual novel.

Why not?

I feel it would be better to not focus on a specific cast for the entirety of the story. That turned canon into a bland fantasy epic.

Apart from Kerrigan and if we disregard SC2, who can really be considered an epic fantasy hero? It's very realistic for the story to be driven by important figures. Would you argue that Stalin, Hitler and etc made WW2 an epic fantasy?

[Mislagnissa]

Why not?

It would be very work intensive to write a story around multiple changing variables. Furthermore, it prevents much chance of a sequel unless the consequences of the multiple choices are inconsequential. For example, despite being able to make choices in Mass Effect that carry over to the sequels, it does not change most of the events that occur.

Apart from Kerrigan and if we disregard SC2, who can really be considered an epic fantasy hero? It's very realistic for the story to be driven by important figures. Would you argue that Stalin, Hitler and etc made WW2 an epic fantasy?

The actual contributions of historical figures is a highly debated topic. I am of the opinion that the public projects onto historical figures because we want to believe that cause and effect is easy to trace and predict, when in fact we have absolutely no control at all.

In terms of an RTS, I prefer sandbox settings with near-total freedom so I hate celebrity politicians because they steal the spotlight from the bazillion other characters with stories to tell. Despite the fact that we have a galaxy's worth of material to work with, both official stories and fanfiction almost always limit themselves to the same cast of a half-dozen celebrities just because they appeared first. I wrote a passage with mostly original characters and a brief cameo by Tassadar, and my reviewers still said Tassadar was the most interesting part even though he was not the main character and I deliberately wrote him the most bland and boring of the cast.

[Nissa]

In terms of an RTS, I prefer sandbox settings with near-total freedom so I hate celebrity politicians because they steal the spotlight from the bazillion other characters with stories to tell. Despite the fact that we have a galaxy's worth of material to work with, both official stories and fanfiction almost always limit themselves to the same cast of a half-dozen celebrities just because they appeared first. I wrote a passage with mostly original characters and a brief cameo by Tassadar, and my reviewers still said Tassadar was the most interesting part even though he was not the main character and I deliberately wrote him the most bland and boring of the cast.

You're mad because some characters are popular? That's not really something you can do anything about. Besides, when you write a character, a reader has to be convinced they're interesting. Tassadar has been introduced, so he's already convinced people he's interesting. His advantage isn't that he's a "celebrity", it's that he's had a head start. You have to do with your original characters what was done with Tassadar in the original story.

[sandwich_bird]

It would be very work intensive to write a story around multiple changing variables. Furthermore, it prevents much chance of a sequel unless the consequences of the multiple choices are inconsequential. For example, despite being able to make choices in Mass Effect that carry over to the sequels, it does not change most of the events that occur.

It's more work than a linear story of course but it's far from being impossible.

I'm surprise you're arguing about consequences when you keep asking for a sandbox universe where multiple stories can live. It's the same principle as Enumerate really. At a macro level, the story stays the same but at a micro level, multiple different stories exist.

The actual contributions of historical figures is a highly debated topic. I am of the opinion that the public projects onto historical figures because we want to believe that cause and effect is easy to trace and predict, when in fact we have absolutely no control at all.

In terms of an RTS, I prefer sandbox settings with near-total freedom so I hate celebrity politicians because they steal the spotlight from the bazillion other characters with stories to tell. Despite the fact that we have a galaxy's worth of material to work with, both official stories and fanfiction almost always limit themselves to the same cast of a half-dozen celebrities just because they appeared first. I wrote a passage with mostly original characters and a brief cameo by Tassadar, and my reviewers still said Tassadar was the most interesting part even though he was not the main character and I deliberately wrote him the most bland and boring of the cast.

Historical figures are surrounded by myths and they all had an army of contributors that can claim as much credits as them. That much is true but at the end of the day, the face of these events is still the leader. At a macro level, celebrity politicians are inevitable.

[Gradius]

It's more complicated than that, though. For one thing, the presence of humans means the presence of people capable of having a great opportunity to steal their tech. Not to mention that fleeing Aiur was in fact a possibility, so that annihilation wasn't technically on the table. Losing their homeworld was the bigger issue. Given that the manual states they had several planets, they aren't on the brink of annihilation.

Humans (Schezar's Scavengers) were already on Aiur according to canon, if for some reason Raynor's Raiders don't count. Other planets they can flee to don't matter, as fleeing Aiur is not a viable option for many protoss (like Aldaris) since it has too much sentimental/religious value.

Sure, the protoss don't prefer humans on Aiur but when faced with the prospect of losing it, they'd quickly get over it. Having zerg on Aiur is way worse than having humans on Aiur.

That, and it's not just the Judicator who have an opinion. As much as other Protoss may not hate humans, they won't necessarily want lots of humans they know nothing about on their world. That, and the Judicator were never the only ones who hated humans. Tassadar was the exception, not the rule. Even then, Tassadar knew and trusted Raynor and co. He doesn't know the Umojans/Morians.

And all that is assuming that the Umojans/Morians even want to go to Aiur to help. Given the bad blood between humans and 'Toss, it's highly likely that most would refuse and claim that the Protoss deserve it for what they did to human worlds.

We're talking about a StarCraft remake... Obviously, they wouldn't show up out of the blue and there would have to be some context.

The idea that Raynor's Raiders made any dent in the zerg swarm and made a difference on Aiur was just dumb and is a flaw from the original that I think needs fixing. They're not high enough in numbers to do anything meaningful, but Raynor can use his clout to bring other allies aboard. And the Umojans/Morians are way too absent in SC1. Kill two birds with one stone.

I was under the impression the zerg invaded Koprulu to harvest people for research and development. Infested units should logically only appear during the initial invasion phase, not deployed as standard parts of the zerg forces against other species.

They appear anytime after they get infested which can be anytime during episodes 2 or 3, or hell, even 1.

Why would we keep Kerry in a leadership position beyond the fact that canon did it first? Quite honestly I do not believe it is physically possible for a terran, infested or not, to control anything. All zerg creatures that exert control (even in the fluff only) are gigantic and have gigantic brains. Even the mightiest control brains are overwhelmed and driven to serve the inherent biological drives of the zerg. It makes sense that the control brains might use Kerry as a mouthpiece, but it does not make sense for her to exert any control and especially not defy the drives of the zerg in any way.

She doesn't have to control anything; she can lead by example, etc.

[Turalyon]

I wrote a passage with mostly original characters and a brief cameo by Tassadar, and my reviewers still said Tassadar was the most interesting part even though he was not the main character and I deliberately wrote him the most bland and boring of the cast.

Sorry if this sounds harsh since I don't intend that at all but it could mean that your original characters are either underwritten, inconsequential or even just not interesting enough. It's that or that your writing may be somewhat... wanting?

You have to keep in mind that Tassadar was an original character at the time and not just the designated "hero" (which, generally, all memorable fictional stories seem to centre around anyway, like it or not). Tass was merely the protagonist during Sc1 and more importantly, Sc1 was not heavy on the protagonist-centred morality like Sc2's stories are. Tass did a lot of stuff that turned out wrong, was a pariah for his cause and was only really considered a "hero" by all after his sacrifice. I suppose you could have the same story without Tassadar being the recurring linchpin character but then it'd just be an easily forgettable collection of events rather than a memorable or engaging narrative.