Protoss Special Shield Regen: Gone

[ArcherofAiur]

What the frack did I just say?

REGARDLESS OF EQUAL EXPANSIONS OR NOT, PROTOSS AND ZERG ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN TERRAN WITH THE CURRENT MACRO MECHANICS.

Now do one of 3 things:
- prove that Blizzard can perfectly balance a variable game
- prove me wrong using ANY concrete evidence, not stating I can't be right because I don't have all the numbers when you have none at all
- Go to hell

This is ridiculous. You want concrete evidence like im going to show you a math equation that takes into account all the different variables in a game of starcraft. You cant do that and thats why all these universal statements and equations and graphs are ridiculous and non-constructive.

Imagine if I tried to convince you that zerg transportation was more powerful. First of all how are you going to define more powerful? Second even if it is more powerful that doenst mean it isnt balanced. Remember what Karune said. When they give a race something they take something away or add something to another race.

And Starcraft has more than enough balance for me to call it perfectly balanced. You might not think so because if you make a map with no ramp zerg wins but really thats more of a personal problem.

[Santrega]

What the frack did I just say?

REGARDLESS OF EQUAL EXPANSIONS OR NOT, PROTOSS AND ZERG ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN TERRAN WITH THE CURRENT MACRO MECHANICS.

Now do one of 3 things:
- prove that Blizzard can perfectly balance a variable game
- prove me wrong using ANY concrete evidence, not stating I can't be right because I don't have all the numbers when you have none at all
- Go to hell

So what you are saying is, your data is incorrect, but your reasoning is not. Thus, your incorrect data which no longer helps solidify your point, is thrown out, leaving just your point with nothing concrete behind it, but someone needs concrete evidence to prove you wrong?

Interesting...

I have numbers, but that doesn't mean anything if they are incorrect numbers. You want correct data? I've explained how to get it... Data collected in game is the best data you can get, because it has to involve everything that happens in the game. Data created without a real game being played is false and incorrect, plain and simple.

[DemolitionSquid]

This is ridiculous. You want concrete evidence like im going to show you a math equation that takes into account all the different variables in a game of starcraft. You cant do that and thats why all these universal statements and equations and graphs are ridiculous and non-constructive.

Imagine if I tried to convince you that zerg transportation was more powerful. First of all how are you going to define more powerful? Second even if it is more powerful that doenst mean it isnt balanced. Remember what Karune said. When they give a race something they take something away or add something to another race.

And Starcraft has more than enough balance for me to call it perfectly balanced. You might not think so because if you make a map with no ramp zerg wins but really thats more of a personal problem.

We're both speaking English here, aren't we? How do you manage to not grasp a damn thing I say?

Why do I do this to myself? I need a drink.

[pure.Wasted]

No need to quote if that works for you. This does tend to boil down to very fundamental points so as long as those come across, addressing every sentence... not really necessary...

The casual gamer is hurt by not having fun(The entire point of a game) because he is forced to send every worker to mine to have a chance, while in sc2, you will not be forced to use the macro mechanics to have a chance. You'd be stupid not to use it at least a few times.

Heeere's the catch. Are we talking about the worst player in the world, or just the worst player -of a given match-? Because there's a difference.

Worst player in the world, at consistent clicking, would be absolutely fucked in SC1. In SC2, he would manage.

If we're talking about relative skill, however, someone will always be better. And in a PvP match, economic advantage -- given other things being equal -- will ALWAYS go, in huge amounts, to the one who can take advantage of PC over the one who can't.

It is NOT as visually obvious. You're not going to see lines of SCVs not doing anything, like you would in SC1. But that doesn't mean the player isn't losing out in just as huge a way.

Archer would chime in here: "Yes, the more skilled player is winning the game. What's the problem?"

This isn't skill. At least, not WORTHWHILE skill, as in, its benefits as a skill gap do not outweigh the shoddiness of the gameplay mechanic enforcing it. That's the message Blizzard sent when they put in MBS and rally mine. "We don't want to force players to click more to re-make a decision they've made a thousand times, the variables of which have not changed."

And yet, here is a decision being re-made for the thousandth time, even though the variables have not changed.

And to harp a little more on that:

Stop saying problem. Its a challenge. They moved the challenge.

If it's so good, then why move it? Why not just take out MBS? Why not just take out rally mine? If a player is so bad that he never put a SINGLE worker to his minerals, then he's a lost cause in SC1 or SC2, rally-mine or not. But if he's just bad enough that he loses a few seconds every time, well, that's going to carry over perfectly, too -- now he's losing a few seconds not from the idle Probe, but from the idle PC.

Why move it?

[pure.Wasted]

And Starcraft has more than enough balance for me to call it perfectly balanced. You might not think so because if you make a map with no ramp zerg wins but really thats more of a personal problem.

That's... more of... a what? What the hell does 'personal problem' even MEAN?

[Santrega]

That's... more of... a what? What the hell does 'personal problem' even MEAN?

A problem that is yours to deal with? I think that usually is the definition when someone says sounds like a "personal problem".

[Josue]

*marine style voice* Oh my God! 9 pages of this thread...
Don't tell me it became a hot discussion about Proton Charge...

All this is useless. We're all biased!

Blizzard: Let the beta start for God's sake!

Let's start Operation CWAL for StarCraft II.

EDIT
I think this could become my sig.

[DemolitionSquid]

Oh my God! 9 pages of this thread...
Don't tell me it became a hot discussion about Proton Charge...

All this is useless. We're all biased!

Nah.

Some are just stupid.

[Santrega]

Nah.

Some are just stupid.

Hey, DS is my friend and I don't appreciate you calling him stupid. Please refrain from that in the future.

[pure.Wasted]

A problem that is yours to deal with? I think that usually is the definition when someone says sounds like a "personal problem".

How is the fact, in Archer's own words, that a no-ramp/no-choke map equates with a Zerg victory... a personal problem? Is the Terran who has no chance of winning supposed to... suck it up?