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Thread: Who likes to write fanfiction?

  1. #101

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I don't believe the franchise should be remade because that implies the plot would remain largely the same, and the plot was terrible. It believe it should be rebooted entirely and the rebooted series should focus entirely on the war in the Koprulu sector, based on the plot points from the manual like the determinant and the protoss' schism over humanity's fate, without forcing in incongruous fantasy elements or literally mythic heroes.
    And what makes you think the plot can be made simply via "it just happened" without any sort of planning from the past?

  2. #102

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Ragnarök, there is no good way to execute Amon's character. Any villain who wants to literally destroy the universe will never work outside a children's cartoon.
    I'm in agreement with Rag on this. The Overmind really is just another version of a "villain who wants to destroy the universe" trope but it "works" for Sc1 because of how it was integrated, executed and built up. Amon has none of this. Indeed, the "villainy" that is ascribed to the Overmind is hoisted onto Amon (his being the source of the Overmind's "evil") in order to lazily build him up.
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  3. #103

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    So...you're basically saying you're made that the plot progresses naturally, instead of having all three factions in a state of war continually, no matter how logically absurd the circumstances are to keep them that way.

    Okaaaaay.
    Just look at the political tensions on modern day Earth, and that's within a single species.

    Also, the plot of Starcraft has never progressed naturally. Metzen introduced all sorts of retcons, contrivances, deus ex machinas and idiot plots to ensure it went in the direction he wanted.

    Furthermore, the three factions were never really in a state of war past Episode 1, which shoved all those potentially interesting plots into the background. It never made any sense for them to team up and all the situations where they do are painfully contrived and typically rely on retcons or other inconsistencies.

    The protoss and zerg committed genocide numerous times against the terrans and each other. It makes absolutely no sense for the three races to ever have peace. That makes about as much sense, as I said before, as the Nazis, Taliban and Israel sitting around a campfire singing kumbaya.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    And what makes you think the plot can be made simply via "it just happened" without any sort of planning from the past?
    I do not understand your question.

    My idea for a reboot would just use the backstory from the manual without pointlessly contradicting it like Metzen did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I'm in agreement with Rag on this. The Overmind really is just another version of a "villain who wants to destroy the universe" trope but it "works" for Sc1 because of how it was integrated, executed and built up. Amon has none of this. Indeed, the "villainy" that is ascribed to the Overmind is hoisted onto Amon (his being the source of the Overmind's "evil") in order to lazily build him up.
    Pretty much every Starcraft game has essentially rehashed the same basic premise of big bad evil guy threatening the galaxy/universe/whatever. In Starcraft 1 that villain was the Overmind, in Brood War it was the UED and Second Overmind then Kerry at the end, and in SC2 it was Amon.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I'm in agreement with Rag on this. The Overmind really is just another version of a "villain who wants to destroy the universe" trope but it "works" for Sc1 because of how it was integrated, executed and built up. Amon has none of this. Indeed, the "villainy" that is ascribed to the Overmind is hoisted onto Amon (his being the source of the Overmind's "evil") in order to lazily build him up.
    That's the main problem with Amon in the whole "remaking all creation." Even by the time SC1 was out, that concept was overused. Sure you can still use it, but you have to give the villain some logic behind why he's doing it. You can't just say he's doing it merely for the hell of it (which there are those who assumed that's what Amon's reasoning was, as LotV never explained the details).

    And doing it for the hell of it is only a cheap excuse for shallow nihilistic villain.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    That's the main problem with Amon in the whole "remaking all creation." Even by the time SC1 was out, that concept was overused. Sure you can still use it, but you have to give the villain some logic behind why he's doing it. You can't just say he's doing it merely for the hell of it (which there are those who assumed that's what Amon's reasoning was, as LotV never explained the details).

    And doing it for the hell of it is only a cheap excuse for shallow nihilistic villain.
    That is exactly the reason why it was stupid to ever kill and replace the Overmind as the big bad evil guy. If you introduce a villain whose goal is nothing less than universal conquest and he comes off as vaguely sympathetic, then once you kill him off there is nowhere else to go but down the toilet.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    That is exactly the reason why it was stupid to ever kill and replace the Overmind as the big bad evil guy. If you introduce a villain whose goal is nothing less than universal conquest and he comes off as vaguely sympathetic, then once you kill him off there is nowhere else to go but down the toilet.
    Well, in consideration that the developers didn't know whether or not Sc1 was even going to sell at the time let alone be ultra successful or even considering sequels, one can hardly blame them for introducing and finishing their story in one go as they did.
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  7. #107

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Well, in consideration that the developers didn't know whether or not Sc1 was even going to sell at the time let alone be ultra successful or even considering sequels, one can hardly blame them for introducing and finishing their story in one go as they did.
    Then why did they end the SC1 storyline the way they did? The epilogue quotes clearly left the door open for sequels, this was before BW came out

  8. #108

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Then why did they end the SC1 storyline the way they did? The epilogue quotes clearly left the door open for sequels, this was before BW came out
    Sc1 ends with the Protoss winning and the Zerg defeated. The main story was about the build-up to this conflict and the resolution of it. The story could end there and all would be good if there happened to be no more story afterward. It's nice and self-contained.

    Course, this doesn't mean that the sequel bait/sequel hook trope can't or shouldn't be used in a work (like it does in the Epilogue text of Sc1). On a Doylist level, it's useful in case their work does become successful and there's a demand for sequels. On a Watsonian level, it's useful since it's a tool to enable world-building by creating the illusion of a fictional world that still continues and can go on forevermore even if one may not be able to observe it.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  9. #109

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Sc1 ends with the Protoss winning and the Zerg defeated. The main story was about the build-up to this conflict and the resolution of it. The story could end there and all would be good if there happened to be no more story afterward. It's nice and self-contained.

    Course, this doesn't mean that the sequel bait/sequel hook trope can't or shouldn't be used in a work (like it does in the Epilogue text of Sc1). On a Doylist level, it's useful in case their work does become successful and there's a demand for sequels. On a Watsonian level, it's useful since it's a tool to enable world-building by creating the illusion of a fictional world that still continues and can go on forevermore even if one may not be able to observe it.
    The way SC1 ended could have implied the zerg threat was permanently netrualized, but I guess deep down there were those who wondered if the Overmind had ever been smart enough to make contingency plans should it be killed.

    If nothing else, I can see some trying to use that for SC3 to at least show that Amon wasn't COMPLETELY stupid

  10. #110

    Default Re: Who likes to write fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    but I guess deep down there were those who wondered if the Overmind had ever been smart enough to make contingency plans should it be killed.
    I didn't think it had any contingency plans because it thought it was winning at the time nor do I think the Overmind ever felt it was ever in real danger of being killed. The Overminds invasion of Aiur is often considered a stupid move but that's only due to hindsight bias. Because the audience member has the benefit of retrospect, perspective and how the story is presented (it's a 3 act arc that has the Protoss arc last, so we know they win to some degree before we even play it), it's easy to mistakenly consider the Protoss killing the Overmind and defeating the Zerg as a predestined event (even though it is according to determinists...). Therefore, it's easy to then think that any actions by the Overmind leading to that event "has" to be considered "stupid".

    Thing is, the Overmind is not an audience member and cannot be expected to have such foreknowledge. The Overmind back then was just making a calculated tactical move based on the information it had. At that particular time, the Overmind had got what it wanted from the Terrans and obtained unparalleled knowledge of its enemy. It was supremely confident that it had the upper hand in that moment and was not "wanting to die" (which has not even circumstantial evidence to support its supposition within the game or manual of Sc1) at all. Indeed, it's so overconfident that when you go on to complete the final objective, it goes on to pronounce its ultimate victory in its final speech as if it had already won/assimilated the Protoss. Talk about hubris!

    The Overmind probably knew from Zeratul that Aiur had no Dark Templar ("all his secrets were known to me"), the one and only thing that could harm it, so Aiur is actually safer than Char... where the Dark Templar currently were and even successfully doing permanent harm against it. It left its superweapon behind not to safeguard it but to eliminate the one thing that could do it harm. Indeed, Kerrigan being left alone on Char should be considered more dangerous than bringing her with the rest of the Swarm to Aiur. It did so because it was confident that its determinant would be able to do what its whole purpose for existing was for and wipe out the one true threat against it.

    The Protoss only won due to luck and that the determinant was not the "bees knees" the Overmind fantasised it would be. If the story had the Protoss ultimately losing in that last campaign (which would've been an interesting hypothetical subversion of expectation to consider), the Overmind's decision to attack Aiur in the earlier campaign would've been instead lauded as brilliant move bordering on genius.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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