Planetary Fortress : Overpowered based on BR4?

[Santrega]

Same thing would happen in SC:BW if zealots tried to kill a CC that's being repaired while ignoring a huge army killing all the zealots.

Actually, the same thing wouldn't happen, because the terran player would just lift off.

That's right, almost every terran building can be INVULNERABLE to zealots if necessary. Zealots are still useful even if they can't kill buildings.

Also, 27 seconds is a skewed way of trying to support your claim. Obviously once you lose a set number of units the damage done per second will be less than repairing done. Stop the clock there :P

Well it all comes down to personal opinion. In mine I think the planetary fortress and any building shouldnt have bonus armor, period. In my opinion without it, that fortress would have fallen to that army.

I would rather the fortress do more damage, than for it to be harder to kill for tier 1 units. These building upgrades will turn a difficult long game into an even more difficult long game. It's unnecessary, and does more hurt than good in my opinion.

Units Fight units to get to buildings, I shouldnt have to in addition to that fight building upgrades and bonus armor.

[rcp181]

Hehe, that's fine if you have your own opinion on armor, I was just trying to point out that zealots can still be very handy even if they can't kill buildings

[Norfindel]

In fact, most of the SCVs were wiped-off by a Psi Storm, only a few continued repairing, and there were a lot of Zealots.

[Caliban113]

Have a question. During that battle at the PF, (15:00 - where the last three Zealots get killed) it looks like the Thors and some of the Marauders are firing through the PF at the Zealots......shouldn't their direct sight to the target actually be blocked? (forcing them to take a position where the Z's are in direct view?)

[rcp181]

Have a question. During that battle at the PF, (15:00 - where the last three Zealots get killed) it looks like the Thors and some of the Marauders are firing through the PF at the Zealots......shouldn't their direct sight to the target actually be blocked? (forcing them to take a position where the Z's are in direct view?)

Well, buildings have never been able to block view or attacks, and probably never will be.

However, if their shot animations really were going THROUGH the pf, it would probably be nice if they went over instead :P

[Tigger]

Since it only needs an engineering bay to be built, does anyone else see the possibility of flying your 1st command center to your opponents base along with all your SCV's in an attempt turn it into a PT while being repair by SCV's to do a rush? The PT would just dominate everything...

[rcp181]

Since it only needs an engineering bay to be built, does anyone else see the possibility of flying your 1st command center to your opponents base along with all your SCV's in an attempt turn it into a PT while being repair by SCV's to do a rush? The PT would just dominate everything...

This has been discussed in other forums at least. I'll copy+paste a response I agree with. Probably a fun noob-stomp strategy we'll surely see a replay of during beta, but not a serious threat for a decent player.

Can't the PF not lift-off and not downgrade anyway? Even in ideal circumstances, the best this strategy should ever be able to achieve is a draw.

In order to catch him by surprise and not get your landing blocked by an enemy worker, you would have to land quite a ways away from your target, at just the ideal range. Even if you're successful at killing the opposing player's nexus, you now have like 5 workers and a PF out in the middle of nowhere. As soon as the protoss player recognizes he can't kill the CC before it upgrades, he can just withdraw, let his nexus die, and use his army to deny the terran's mining. In the end you would have a grounded PF out of position, and the protoss would have a random building or two but plenty of workers (and probably a zealot or a cannon) to kill any SCVs who attempt to mine.

Also, this should never work against a terran or a zerg. Zerg overlord scout should see the CC coming, and the terran should be able to upgrade his own CC to a PF to defend himself (if he's already completed an OC, it's probably too late anyway).

Additionally for this to work, close positions are required. You would have to make a big sacrifice just to scout early and see if this is even remotely an option. If he's not a close position you've waste an early worker, and there is a chance he'll see your early scout and know you're up to something.

[LoTuS]

the zeals were weaked b4 the PF assault. also, isnt zeal attack a 2 hit attack? so if the PF had 3 armor and zeal had 16 attack, the do only 10. Plus the repairing brought back a bit of hp, so i the PF could have had 50 hp left for all we know

[Raisk]

Basically, the other player shouldn't have attacked the pf with that army, he should have pushed forward to the natural expansion, which was an orbital command. If he was able to take out David Kim's army there and then his attack would have been much more successful.

His army was wiped out due to strategic error.

[Gifted]

27 seconds it took to kill off the last zealot... They couldnt kill one building in 27 seconds, someone please show me where an army of zealots in sc1 couldnt kill one building in 27 seconds. I've watched 6 zerglings take out a command center faster. I admit, its not a command center, but it also wasnt 6 zerglings.

Something to consider was that they were attacking without retaliation. This created a diminishing output of damage for the protoss, and a constant damage for the uneffected Terran army. In other words, because there was no combat at the army itself, the terrans were able to have a significant advantage.

PS: I Don't want units that are best against buildings. When that happens Sc becomes just another RTS game.

I want all units to be able to effect buildings the same way, except the differences in attack damage. I think its ridiculous to say "oh zealots shouldnt have attacked that BUILDING, because they arent the right kind of unit for that".

Nothing has changed from SC1 to SC2 in this regard. The only difference is that Terrans got more identity with the ability to increase armor of their buildings. You can increase armor of units so it's a natural and simple thing to test with.

The reason why Zealots are a rough choice is the same issue that exists from SC1. They are highly dependent on the upgrades of the dual attack unit and highly effected by the armor of the opponent. This is why Zealots with +0 upgrades did pathetic damage to a ultralisk with +3 (+2) armor in SC1. The example I provide isn't "perfect" due to the nature of no repairing on ultralisks, but it's the best example I can provide to help illustrate a point.

Starcraft is better off without any sort of building enhancements and extra defense against certain units. It's simply not needed, since you have to use many different kinds of units to counter actual units. Why does it make sense to make killing buildings off harder?

It has no more extra defense against dual-attack units as it does in SC1. Zealots without attack upgrades will be effected by armor more, there's nothing more to the point.

Basically, the other player shouldn't have attacked the pf with that army, he should have pushed forward to the natural expansion, which was an orbital command. If he was able to take out David Kim's army there and then his attack would have been much more successful.

His army was wiped out due to strategic error.

I agree with this simple point.