Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo

[Undeadprotoss]

yup. it assumes there was no sc2 yet. Nisa wanted to do a collab with everyone, so I made this thread to give it a try.

Please, don't hesistate..

HAH! I was just about to write a post titled 'What would a SC2 manual look like' with the same premise. Basically, 75 pages of lore just like in the original SC1 manual, in order to bridge the gap between the two games as if the current SC2 bad storytelling never occurred.

[GnaReffotsirk]

Nissa, nice post. I'll sit on your thoughts for a while. I'll make bullet points version here later.

[ragnarok]

HAH! I was just about to write a post titled 'What would a SC2 manual look like' with the same premise. Basically, 75 pages of lore just like in the original SC1 manual, in order to bridge the gap between the two games as if the current SC2 bad storytelling never occurred.

I wouldn't mind seeing it, certainly would be better than those who feel that since the whole of SC2 was useless, the whole SC2 manual lore would be just page after page of BS.

[Visions of Khas]

Mengsk should also be violently angry if the Zerg are mentioned, like he's got this personal grudge against Kerrigan, and the slightest move of Zerg beyond certain borders causes him to immediately go into action.

Hm, I like this angle. Mengsk was directly responsible for the Swarm's current strength. He essentially raised Kerrigan into the tactical and strategic leader she became, taught her subversion and intrigue. She was his protege. It was a moment of spite, offing the assassin of his father. But it was also a moment of hubris, too; being able to groom someone into a personal weapon, then cast her away as though she was nothing more than an object. So in his blunder on Korhal, he literally made his own worst enemy, creating a personal point of humiliation.

She was probably a personal experiment and project, utterly molding somebody into the best possible weapon, instilling her with absolute and utter loyalty. He probably thought to himself, "This little Kerrigan Project was just a taste of what I can do with this Sector, once it is under my control." And you know what, he thinks of it as a good thing; he sees his rise as justice -- justice for Korhal, justice for himself. And in a lot of ways, his militarization and unification of the Koprulu population probably helped save it against the Zerg, Protoss and UED. Nobody ever sees themselves as the villain of their story.


With this in mind, I've always thought Raynor and Mengsk saw themselves as opposites, but with more in common than either would admit. I expected more parallels between them in WoL. What are the lengths he will go to in order to defeat Mengsk? Will he resort to terrorist tactics? Will he train and indoctrinate somebody the way Mengsk worked Kerrigan?

[ragnarok]

Hm, I like this angle. Mengsk was directly responsible for the Swarm's current strength. He essentially raised Kerrigan into the tactical and strategic leader she became, taught her subversion and intrigue. She was his protege. It was a moment of spite, offing the assassin of his father. But it was also a moment of hubris, too; being able to groom someone into a personal weapon, then cast her away as though she was nothing more than an object. So in his blunder on Korhal, he literally made his own worst enemy, creating a personal point of humiliation.

Yes but no one knew that at the moment. Raynor fully expected (right after Tarsonis) that the zerg killed her. Mengsk too probably didn't think the zerg were anything more than just mindless animals anyway.

With this in mind, I've always thought Raynor and Mengsk saw themselves as opposites, but with more in common than either would admit. I expected more parallels between them in WoL. What are the lengths he will go to in order to defeat Mengsk? Will he resort to terrorist tactics? Will he train and indoctrinate somebody the way Mengsk worked Kerrigan?

It's hard to say. If nothing else, I still feel Raynor would at least be able to see a moral line. Whether he'd cross it or not is another matter, but still.

[Visions of Khas]

Yes but no one knew that at the moment. Raynor fully expected (right after Tarsonis) that the zerg killed her. Mengsk too probably didn't think the zerg were anything more than just mindless animals anyway.

That's kinda the point. I was reinforcing the "why" behind Nissa's evaluation of Mengsk's character with regard to the Zerg. It would be an especially touchy subject with him. Maybe people would know that he lost his most trusted asset and adviser, but they'll never guess at the truth of the situation.

It's hard to say. If nothing else, I still feel Raynor would at least be able to see a moral line. Whether he'd cross it or not is another matter, but still.

The pain and hardship he's gone through is immense. He's lost his whole family, the colony he served and protected, so many brothers and sisters in arms. He's going to have some PTSD, man. And that's something I wish was explored in more depth.

[Nissa]

Hm, I like this angle. Mengsk was directly responsible for the Swarm's current strength. He essentially raised Kerrigan into the tactical and strategic leader she became, taught her subversion and intrigue. She was his protege. It was a moment of spite, offing the assassin of his father. But it was also a moment of hubris, too; being able to groom someone into a personal weapon, then cast her away as though she was nothing more than an object. So in his blunder on Korhal, he literally made his own worst enemy, creating a personal point of humiliation.

She was probably a personal experiment and project, utterly molding somebody into the best possible weapon, instilling her with absolute and utter loyalty. He probably thought to himself, "This little Kerrigan Project was just a taste of what I can do with this Sector, once it is under my control." And you know what, he thinks of it as a good thing; he sees his rise as justice -- justice for Korhal, justice for himself. And in a lot of ways, his militarization and unification of the Koprulu population probably helped save it against the Zerg, Protoss and UED. Nobody ever sees themselves as the villain of their story.


With this in mind, I've always thought Raynor and Mengsk saw themselves as opposites, but with more in common than either would admit. I expected more parallels between them in WoL. What are the lengths he will go to in order to defeat Mengsk? Will he resort to terrorist tactics? Will he train and indoctrinate somebody the way Mengsk worked Kerrigan?

I'm just so sad they never really exploited the wonder that is the Mengsk/Raynor/Kerri triangle of hate. It is literally my favorite thing about writing fanfiction, and then Blizz all goes, "Mengsk's story is told." Pffft. So long as the other two are there, Mengsk has a place.

I really don't want a storyline where Raynor is trying to take Mengsk down. I am very much against this. Mostly because of what you said about them being opposites. I don't feel that they are terribly alike, but they have an enemy in common, and I see them more using one another rather than trying to kill each other.

As for Raynor, I feel that post BW he would have disappeared for a while, but then his natural desire to help others/make up for his past decisions would cause him to just randomly help people throughout the sector, whether human or Protoss. So he's low on Mengsk's radar, because he has neither the will nor the power to topple Mengsk. Mengsk, for his part, would be too busy in the political department to really care about Raynor. He would have a low level hatred of Raynor as a person, but on the other hand, he can trust that Raynor hates Kerrigan as much as he does, and is willing to use Jim to kill her.

I kinda imagined a cutscene in my head, where Mengsk just so happened to have caught Raynor one day, and makes Jim come to see him. They talk briefly about how much they hate one another, then Mengsk offers him an opportunity to take some of his men and defeat the Zerg on a certain planet (for what objective, I haven't decided yet).

Raynor: "Why me? Kinda figured you'd have some rabid, blind follower to go and do your dirty work for you."

Mengsk: "For one reason, and one reason alone. You're the only man I know whose hatred of the Zerg...of Kerrigan, coincides with my own."

Raynor: "Heh. I guess I'm your man after all."

Or something like that. I'd imagine they're smoking and/or drinking over Mengsk's desk, or whatever. These two have the weirdest hate relationship, and I absolutely love it. We need to have the hates.

Oh hey, we probably should talk about Valerian. I personally feel he should be nonexistent, absent, or only involved peripherally. However, if someone has any idea how to make him interesting, I'm all ears. I kinda go for the angle that he hates his dad, but isn't really a good person in general. He basically just uses his position in life to get nice things for himself. More or less a dignified but spoiled rich kid, who was forced to do more legit work because his dad's problems have cut into his ability to spend. He could possibly have gotten involved in hybrid projects this way, and Mengsk is forced to confront his own son over them. But we'll discuss on that.

[Visions of Khas]

So what would kickstart Raynor's involvement in the new story?

I kinda saw him disappearing into the woordwork, only to resurface later to try and help out a settlement, maybe Swann's miners. In his anger and bitterness, he starts using terrorist tactics, slowly edging into Mengsk territory. After Swann's party is saved, Raynor sees his his actions through the eyes of those he just saved. Embittered, and to his horror understanding Mengsk a little bit better, he goes into hiding once again.

This would make some interesting back story between Brood War and SCII. If Swann works with Raynor in the campaign, it would lead to interesting character dynamics that we, the audience, wouldn't be immediately privy to.

[Nissa]

Okay, so I also want to think about the Zerg. The main problem with the Zerg is their lack of characters. While I'm willing to believe that maybe a cerebrate went off into space to escape Kerrigan's wrath, we still need to figure out how to create Zerg characters that have any depth. This has literally been the problem with Starcraft since day one.

Kerrigan needs to have followers, so if you think of any good ones, by all means. In my own work, I introduced infested Protoss, but the problem is I had no way to distinguish them from the hybrids -- who I also hadn't well defined. In Sons of War, we had the early hybrids come in and try to use Kerrigan for their own purposes, but I wasn't entirely happy with that angle either.

Okay, so I'd like there to be a rebel cerebrate, for one. I like that genetics weaver dude (forgot his name at the moment), except for the fact he just so happened to be the one to turn Kerrigan. No. But for other servants....I'd like help.

[Nissa]

So what would kickstart Raynor's involvement in the new story?

I kinda saw him disappearing into the woordwork, only to resurface later to try and help out a settlement, maybe Swann's miners. In his anger and bitterness, he starts using terrorist tactics, slowly edging into Mengsk territory. After Swann's party is saved, Raynor sees his his actions through the eyes of those he just saved. Embittered, and to his horror understanding Mengsk a little bit better, he goes into hiding once again.

This would make some interesting back story between Brood War and SCII. If Swann works with Raynor in the campaign, it would lead to interesting character dynamics that we, the audience, wouldn't be immediately privy to.

Am I the only one who doesn't like Swann? Don't let that stop you if you want to include him, but he...just really rubs me the wrong way. I don't feel he's properly developed as a character. I'd like to see him be a bit more rough around the edges, more SC1 in nature.

Well, in any case, I had an idea more or less like that, except Raynor's involvement would hinge on deliberate action from Mengsk, and Mengsk generally ignores Raynor until he finds Raynor useful.