Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo

[Nissa]

That's an interesting parallel. How Duran creates hybrids, and your idea on how he can change his form, I mean.

Jesus in the bible was shown to be capable of such a feat. He would appear in multiple areas at once, his apostles would not recognize him by appearance, but by his ways and words. It's weird.

I have no idea if quantum teleportation is the method used, as per described today. Maybe it is possible to "pass through walls" in a sense, like how electricity works. You don't destroy information, rather, transfer it without cut-and-paste method. The current theory is too mechanical for my taste.

If we take the position that we are simply "borrowing" space-time as we exist, like moving images on an LCD screen, where each pixel is simply taken up as a space to project form, then we can essentially appear from one corner of the monitor to the other without going through the points in between them.

But I digress.

Well, I wasn't suggesting that that was how Jesus did it, I was suggesting that what I just read might be a good idea for how to limit Duran and make him more than just a generic shapechanger. I honestly hated how he was in HotS, and I suspect that many other fans did too, which is why Blizzard changed it into a projection thing in LotV.

Hey, did you have any ideas for some Protoss characters?

[GnaReffotsirk]

My thinking is to utilize the ones already in the game. Haven't gotten into the toss yet, but for sure preserver Rohana won't be playing a significant part.

I feel DT tribal leaders, former Judicators, survivors that joined Aldaris.

Artanis would not play a leadership role in politics, but will play a commanding role. I want to continue his arc in bw as a protoss commander, and how he will stand up to his promise in upholding the Khala's law as promised during their escape from Aiur.

Zeratul would not be disrespected, and will be asked to lead the DT. But he will refuse. He will be the one who will take the Hero's journey (MC), while Artanis will be the impact character.

Their dynamics will be a contrast between the new blood and old ways. (I will have to sleep on this one, but at least in some sense, this would be felt/explored). Artanis' difficulty in upholding the Templar tradition, vs Zeratul's tendencies to follow his usual manner, which comes from way back. Or the likes.

Zeratul will have to learn to deny himself/control his impulse to serve all protoss, in some way. Thematically, he will be the guy who must turn from the path of passion, and learn the depths of Raszagal's leadership. But in the end, he just can't take it to himself to be the leader that's expected of him. There's just something more satisfying to wear his emotions on his sleeve than be a symbol of order, rule, safety.

He has gone through the horrors of such false ideas, born out of fear, neglect, and distrust.

"We are responsible for our own actions", he said. "Granting power to some phantom, some face sitting on a golden chair, who might not even realize you exist, to rule over you is foolishness. And a guide," his tone mellows down, "a guide you have no need of another, but the silent voice that makes you tremble or be at peace. That is the one you must seek. I have searched the stars, only to find the answer echo in the lives I have left behind. Even those whom I have failed to protect."

Khaldalis will be there. The guy had an intro, we should use that. XD He will be the skeptic/impulsive character. He wants Aiur, and that makes him restless.

His counterpart will be the khalai Karax. The believer/controlled character.

[ragnarok]

In what way, Rag? See, back then there was only the Xel'Naga that were the oldest race. Duran would automatically be part of that age. He could be a XN, or some other that belonged in the age of XN.

Immediately, I associated things, and thought Duran was recreating the Xel'Naga's initial goals. Now, with Zeratul's reaction, I got the thought that this design of his is a corrupt image of what the Xel'naga had in mind.

Why? See, Duran was shown to be deceptive, can infiltrate without being found out, as a terran then as an infested terran. And being deceptive during the course of the story was a theme that argued, "all deceptive people are bad, have their minds twisted, and do what the opposite of what they would have done if they were not corrupted."

Now, while Kerrigan and the matriarch were corrupted, Aldaris was the counterpoint: "Those who are true, and know the truth, ends up being betrayed." This happened to Fenix and Duke. They were not corrupt, they were loyal, and true to their word.

Now comes duran, with a voice echoing, almost electric, deep, and he's been deceptive, and have changed form, and speaks in cryptic tones, and Zeratul, the wise and being the one to silence Aldaris in the past with his lines, our actual point of view in the story, reacts like he's talking to a mad scientist.

All that combined tells me Duran is old and powerful, maybe Xel'Naga or at least someone who belongs during the era where the Xel'Naga were actively pursuing their goals. His creation here is an abomination because our point of view character tells us. It must look horrible, and as far as perfect in form has been implied, it doesn't mean like this. (Since the protoss were once deemed perfect in form and essence, but lost essence, a protoss saying something is an abomination means it's not actually perfect, at least in this case, our perspective through Zeratul).

I'd say, 100%.

Interesting points. I still wasn't convinced back then for Duran to be a Xel'Naga himself though. Granted we didn't know much about the Xel'Naga via the SC1 and BW lore, but nothing seemed to suggest the Xel'Naga were evil, or for splinter groups, etc.

Something that belonged in the age of the Xel'Naga made more sense, I always wanted Duran to have been an enemy of the Xel'Naga. Being Xel'Naga himself (as Tura pointed out) would contradict what he told Zeratul of being a servant of a far greater power.

Of course, if it was related to the Xel'Naga, then it's easy to speculate that the far greater power he served was that of a Xel'Naga, but that didn't make HIM one. By making him Xel'Naga, then his master would have to belong to an even older race, maybe something that predates the Xel'Naga.

[Visions of Khas]

With regard to the protoss...

Can we establish what it is that makes High Templar energies and Void energies so different? Instead of having all the same powers?

And I'd like to leave dead, glassed worlds dead. Not recolonized, like Mar Sara and Chau Sara. Not frozen back over, like Braxis. Dead. I mean, it's okay if glassing is like lightning, releasing a shit ton of nitrogen into the atmosphere to promote future regrowth, but that's going to take years to happen.

[drakolobo]

for me duran is first pseudo xelnaga, is hybrid made for amon, well his dailogs was very low for a xelnaga, Amo for me was best with reference all bad, keep help you with fire

"Amon does not see death as failure. He sees death as the highest ideal. I have seen it in His heart. What did He name our dueling grounds? The Pits of Ascension. He mocks us. Amon does not celebrate the winners. He salutes the losers. They are the ones who ascend in His eyes. He makes us carve each other into bits because that is His plan for us all."

[Visions of Khas]

I'm not sure who posted it, maybe it was Gradius, but there was an idea that Duran actually saw himself as a good guy, trying to usher back in the Xel'Naga, never knowing he was being manipulated towards nefarious ends. I liked it.

[GnaReffotsirk]

What are your guys thoughts on Aiur, and the Dark Voice?

Edit: On Psionic Energy and Void Energy, we could think of them as particle and antiparticle. Such that when Tassadar merged them together, he was destroyed, and a massive amount of energy was released.

[ragnarok]

I'm not sure who posted it, maybe it was Gradius, but there was an idea that Duran actually saw himself as a good guy, trying to usher back in the Xel'Naga, never knowing he was being manipulated towards nefarious ends. I liked it.

Good and evil are just POVs, VoK.

It's hard to say if Duran was manipulated for those ends based on the SC1 and BW lore. But then again, we didn't fully understand just what the purpose of the experiments on the Zerg and Protoss were in the first place.

[GnaReffotsirk]

POV good and evil? That's where the fall started. There is good, there is evil. Good is tied to the benefit of one or more entities in a system. The system is good, if everything is taken care of.

Evil can be seen as causes of distress, while good can be "causes of pleasure". Cognitive definitions of what is good and evil, however, is a view from isolation. If a psychopath derives pleasure and well being from causing distress in another, that is no longer good. It is an abomination.

Don't get confused by the many errors in our human view of what is good and evil. Some say it's good to have sex with animals; some don't. Truth is it's evil. The reason is simple, the objection muddies the simplicity of the matter.

This is where we can derive an issue to place the Xel'Naga on.

Their interference with the natural evolution of species, is that beneficial or not? Would destroying everything, now that they've done the damage, if it ever was, good or evil?

Judging good or evil from an isolated view is not only dangerous, but limited. Especially if it is derived from the measure of pleasure vs distress. Immediate pleasure, but long term damage, etc. There are factors that must be put into consideration.

Is posting this idea good or evil? Stories and themes are explorations of this very question, and apparently, human beings are not very well equipped to arrive at true and complete measure of what is good or evil, logically, holistically, or both.

Take a look at our legal systems.

In any case, I think VoK's point is not to make them demonic or simplistic. Like diablo and his ilk, taken at face value, (i don't know if blizzard has expanded on their motivations), whose sole motivation is destruction, corruption, and malice.

[Visions of Khas]

In any case, I think VoK's point is not to make them demonic or simplistic. Like diablo and his ilk, taken at face value

^-- This guy gets it.

What are your guys thoughts on Aiur, and the Dark Voice?

Were you wanting to re-use Amon, or just the concept of some shadowed malevolence pulling string in the background?

And what of Aiur? What are your thoughts? Maybe that the Protoss should lose Aiur and it becomes some hallowed tomb world?

Their interference with the natural evolution of species, is that beneficial or not?

The other races do this, too. Zerg are the most obvious offenders. Maybe the Protoss cultivate some lesser races via the Dae'Uhl. The terrans probably have its share of genetically modified plants, animals, and humans. So it would be a matter of degrees.

Speaking of the Dae-Uhl, I think it would be interesting if some custodian race under the Protoss were to be mentioned or make a cameo. Perhaps a Protoss hero laments the loss of a particular world, with its most prominent sentient race on the cusp of extinction due to the Brood Wars. Maybe he/she draws a parallel between that race and the Protoss race itself.