Hellion Visuals

[ArcherofAiur]

Exactly. I was thinking that the Hellion looked like something ive seen before, but didnt remember what.

It looks exactly like a remote car... Lol in fact i have one that looks exactly like a hellion. Lol i just realized that.

P = mv

[MattII]

Hmm. No Patrol attacking, and no Spider Mines.

Counterbalanced by its flimsiness, and thus the need to keep it moving to keep it safe.

I don't get why the Terrans would use wheels in the Hellion, when they could use the hovering tech of the Vulture. Doesn't makes too much sense to me.

Agreed, I mean of all the weapons the Terrans have, the flamethrower would seem like an ideal one to stick on a hover unit, if only because it lacks much recoil.

About the Thor, i had never been convinced about it's anti-air role.

Nor have I, at least the way it's currently done.

We had it out with this last time the subject came up. Wheels have certain advantages that a hovercraft lacks; for example, per Liberty's Crusade hover units lose traction over Creep, with obvious implications.

Which, as Nord said, makes exactly zero sense, since a hovering unit 'by definition' lacks traction of any sort to begin with, whereas wheels 'can' lose traction on hard smooth services, or again as Nord points out bog down in soft terrain.

Take out the Thor's anti-air guns, and now it dies to anything and everything in the air. Banshees, Mutalisks, Phoenix/Void Rays. Basic AtG units will slaughter everything produced from the Factory.

Thors weren't going to stop a concerted air attack from Void Rays to begin with. But without their anti-air, the Terrans would have been even more vulnerable to flying attackers.

Okay, working back from one of my ideas, what if we were to ditch the current AA damage, and give the Thor the ability to shoot GtA with its current guns (only 6 range rather than 10, but 2*30 damage rather than 4*10/14)

Remember: I was all for chucking the ST entirely in favor of the original Thor with Barrage.

As was (and am) I, in fact my solution to the issue was to give the Thor a normal GtG/A attack and Barrage, while leaving the ST (renamed Assault Tank) with its current GtG attack, but giving it a GtG/A attack when deployed.

This would make it so that the Terran player would be well defended against raiding, but not against a serious attack (outranged by Colossus w. Thermal Lances, Brood Lord, and Thor's barrage), so turtling would still require a fairly sizeable army).

As for the Viking, last I checked, it only attacks air in aerial mode. And last I checked, fighters are offensive, AA ground units are defensive.

Actually, taking role into account, fighters are defensive, it's bombers that are offensive.

[Lupino]

Are you sure? I don't remember that at all. Anyways, it doesn't makes any sense, the unit just floats over there, how is it supposed to lose traction? And how are wheels, known for digging into soft terrain any better?

The ground beneath the hover-cycle suddenly changed in texture, from red clays and brownish slates to a mottled clumping of gray-black moss.

“Creep!” said Mike, as soon as he had recognized it. “They’re herding us into Zerg territory!”

Kerrigan cursed and threw on the brakes, but the creep beneath the grav-fields provided no traction for the bike’s transducer coils. The thin bike started to fishtail, then skewed horribly to one side, plowing up a thick crust of the creep like foam on a wave.

And yeah, if the ground is soft enough wheels will sink in, but Creep usually solidifies, actually becomes brittle, so that would not be much of a problem.

[MattII]

It may work in canon, in physics it sounds like a pile of junk.

[Nicol Bolas]

Okay, working back from one of my ideas, what if we were to ditch the current AA damage, and give the Thor the ability to shoot GtA with its current guns (only 6 range rather than 10, but 2*30 damage rather than 4*10/14)

Why do that? All that would do is change its preferred GtA targets from swarms of light targets (Mutalisks, Phoenixes, possibly Vikings) to BCs, Carriers, Void Rays, and such. Since these units are the best units for taking out Thors, it's probably a good idea to not make the Thor strong against them.

And how are wheels, known for digging into soft terrain any better?

Dune buggies. If you use large wheels, they can get traction in soft terrain.

[ArcherofAiur]

Can we please not turn this into another wheels vs hover debate.

[MattII]

Why do that? All that would do is change its preferred GtA targets from swarms of light targets (Mutalisks, Phoenixes, possibly Vikings) to BCs, Carriers, Void Rays, and such. Since these units are the best units for taking out Thors, it's probably a good idea to not make the Thor strong against them.

Well it is an old idea (I first thought of it back in the Cobra era I think), so it might not work all that well. I'd disagree though that it changes the idea target to heavy units, after all, it'll 2-shot a Mutalisk, but a BC's going to require 12 shots (or 15 with DMatrix) to take out, and a Carrier's going to outrange it (by 2).

[DemolitionSquid]

At this point, I'd like to see ANYTHING other than the Thor. If this is an AV with a Valkyrie attack, then so be it.

As for the Viking, last I checked, it only attacks air in aerial mode. And last I checked, fighters are offensive, AA ground units are defensive.

There is no such thing as offensive and defensive units or buildings. Its the situation you use them in. The Viking is an upgraded Goliath because it can effectively chase the units its best at attacking.

I would argue that Terrans seige, Zerg rush/swarm, and Protoss obliterate. Anyhow, when I said "Goliath type unit", I didn't mean something that can park behind Siege tanks with Charon boosters.

Just a smaller AA unit that clutters the battlefield less, is a lot more visually appealing, and yes, mobility would be nice.

Its too bad my suggestion for adapting the SCG Stinger into a mobile bunker/turret combo unit got ignored.

[n00bonicPlague]

Its too bad my suggestion for adapting the SCG Stinger into a mobile bunker/turret combo unit got ignored.

I think I missed out on this. Got a link to it?

[MattII]

There is no such thing as offensive and defensive units or buildings. Its the situation you use them in.

Actually, all buildings are defensive, (you try building a bunker in-range of a Photon Cannon and see how far you get), and some units are as well (Phoenix is 'mostly' defensive, since you can't really hurt an enemy with just one of them, even if it can't fire back). Units like the Reaper OTOH 'are' pretty much offensive, since they go down easily if they don't have somewhere to run.

The Viking is an upgraded Goliath because it can effectively chase the units its best at attacking.

It's built from the Starport, so it's more a Wraith with a bad ability (in a world of armour, what's the value or a walker that has less value-for-cost than a Marauder?).