Hellion Visuals

[scorpio19]

just consept ..maybe you like it..

[pure.Wasted]

I never said it wasn't worth the tradeoff. I said that having to go to ground is a disadvantage. You know, just like doing more damage is an advantage. When you put them together, you get a disadvantage coupled with an advantage: a tradeoff.

Pssst. I think he was arguing with Aldrius on your behalf.

[Ghost_828]

While the above concepts are definitely interesting, I feel they are too exotic to fit well with the Terran faction overall.

I do, however, think that the Hellion's visuals can definitely be improved if it sways a bit when turning or braking. Not actual movement, but a chassis animation.

[MattII]

I never said it wasn't worth the tradeoff. I said that having to go to ground is a disadvantage. You know, just like doing more damage is an advantage. When you put them together, you get a disadvantage coupled with an advantage: a tradeoff.

Yeah, but it doesn't do more damage till the target has like 6 armour, which nothing has. Besides, by the time the Viking is out of targets within a safe chase distance the ground combat is probably winding down anyway, so the Viking probably isn't going to be that useful.

That remains to be seen. I'd want to see it actually "owning the shit" out of these units before accepting that claim.

Frankly it's pathetic on the ground, 1 extra range and 2 damage (with no bonus vs. armoured) over the Marauder is not worth the 25/75 extra cost.

[pure.Wasted]

Frankly it's pathetic on the ground, 1 extra range and 2 damage over the Marauder is not worth the 25/75 extra cost.

No, but having them be able to transform into air units on a dime is. Of the Terran ground army alone, 4 units are incapable of attacking air: Marauder, Reaper, Hellion, Siege Tank. A Viking force running into a Terran ground army has a VERY good chance of being able to escape unscathed.

How many units can say that? Again, not the most powerful, but versatile, and in the right hands very long-lived.

[MattII]

No, but having them be able to transform into air units on a dime is. Of the Terran ground army alone, 4 units are incapable of attacking air: Marauder, Reaper, Hellion, Siege Tank. A Viking force running into a Terran ground army has a VERY good chance of being able to escape unscathed.

Yeah, but only by running away, going to ground mode is just asking for trouble.

[Nicol Bolas]

Yeah, but only by running away, going to ground mode is just asking for trouble.

They could also run away... into a group of Banshees that will make quick work of that army.

[Nicol Bolas]

Frankly it's pathetic on the ground, 1 extra range and 2 damage (with no bonus vs. armoured) over the Marauder is not worth the 25/75 extra cost.

How much does a Viking cost?

[n00bonicPlague]

I wouldn't compare the Viking to the Wraith too much. The Viking is more like a flying Goliath than a walking Wraith. Wraiths were more expensive than the Goliath and were weaker than the Goliath in terms of weaponry and armor, but they made up for it in speed, stealth, and the ability to fly. Goliaths were strictly battle units. They were tougher and more powerful than the Wraith. The Viking is what happened when they mixed 3 parts Goliath with 1 part Wraith.

If you want a unit that took the Wraith's stealth and harassment abilities, look at the Banshee.

[Aldrius]

"A LOT of punishment" as opposed to what? Being able to attack ground from the air, or not being able to attack ground at all?

As opposed to being the form you BUILD. If you built the Viking in ground form, then the whole transforming thing would be a lot more impressive, because you'd be building ground units that LATER ON could become air units.

If you want the former, tough cookies. You might as well be crying that the Medic needs to come back, because it provided more obvious advantages to the Terran. More obvious advantages =! better for gameplay.

No you wouldn't. This analogy makes no sense. Med-evac provides numerous benefits to the game, other than being a later-tier medic. They also have numerous advantages over the medic, all of which are rather cool. The ground-form of the Viking does not.

'Cool', of course is subjective, but still.

Why the 'besides'? That's like saying, 'name the benefits to burrowing a Lurker, OTHER than gaining an attack.' It's a pretty big benefit...

Because you CAN name a benefit other than being able to attack. The Lurker is invisible when burrowed. Now the benefits to not being burrowed are rather limited (you can move) but when you spawn a Lurker, it STARTS in the 'worse form'.

That's all I'm saying. The ground form is 'worse' in most respects you should START in the ground form, then 'upgrade' to the air form.

No, it's not. Sure it's "perfectly" usable, so how come the viking ground form isn't? Stop using a double standard. "The viking has to transform to use a weaker ground attack" is suddenly worse than "The siege tank has to transform just to be more useful"?

What double-standard? Tank-mode has numerous advantages over siege mode. No minimum range, it can move, it deals it's damage much more quickly. Sure it's WORSE overall, but it's usable. Plus, I wasn't saying the Viking's ground-form wasn't usable, I just hate that weird misconception that somehow tank mode isn't useful, when it is.

Frankly it's pathetic on the ground, 1 extra range and 2 damage (with no bonus vs. armoured) over the Marauder is not worth the 25/75 extra cost.

It shoots faster than the Marauder does. And it can... fly.

What's a better choice? Using goliaths against Hydralisks, or using wraiths? You tell me.

That's a loaded question and you're still applying attitudes to my arguments that don't exist.

I never said Vikings need to or should be able to attack ground.

I'm totally against that in fact, but right now the ground form is simply a gimmick to keep the Viking balanced, instead of a neat tactical option.