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Thread: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

  1. #11

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    That shouldn't have been the case, VoK. Remember the Amerigo mission from SC1?
    I know. That's why I keep saying BS writing.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I know. That's why I keep saying BS writing.
    It's only a shame they didn't look hard enough at it.

    That being said, I still felt her psionic levels DID increase at least somewhat prior to the Amerigo mission....

  3. #13

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    And oh yeah, Infested Kerrigan's power being the only thing capable of reviving Amon would've also helped explain why it could only be her that could kill Amon at the end (sharing similar energies and all - much like what the Overmind says about the reason why Dark Templar are able to harm it back in Sc1).
    That I doubt, since her ascension wasn't really a normal one, Ouros merely pulled some strings and all that. The Protoss essence were tainted from Amon's uplifting, otherwise they could have done it themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Strangely enough, Sc2 never really posits this. In some ways, it's good because if it didn't say Duran could have gotten it from other sources, then maybe he actually couldn't. This then cements the importance of Kerrigan's infested state as being the only source to awaken Amon, justifies (abeit in an arbitrary way) what initially felt like a "throw it in" piece of plotting and actually reduces the creation of more plotholes. Course, it can easily go the other way, too - if it didn't say he could get other sources, he may well and could have. However, this opens up more plot-holes because it begs the question of why he didn't use these sources and why these sources weren't available, leading to an infinite regression of "why" (your theory is this). I'm thinking that Occam's razor tends to tilt in favour of Duran not having any other sources.
    This would all have to depend on what the other Xel'Naga did when Amon was put into the Void, Tura. Yes the main reason was because the writers didn't factor this in, but that aside I felt that the other Xel'Naga could have put Amon in a place where he needed a specific type of psionic energy to free himself, and it took Duran a long time to figure out what type is needed. But even then it still doesn't prove Kerrigan's psionic energies alone freed him.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    For some reason Kerrigan's power was vital; Amon said he Hybrid form was forged in part from the essence of "The Great Betrayer" -- Kerrigan's essence. But for what reason? Why not Protoss form and essence? Did Duran not perfect the protoss-zerg integration? Did Amon need some fragment Abathur's workings? Why HER?

  5. #15

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    For some reason Kerrigan's power was vital; Amon said he Hybrid form was forged in part from the essence of "The Great Betrayer" -- Kerrigan's essence. But for what reason? Why not Protoss form and essence? Did Duran not perfect the protoss-zerg integration? Did Amon need some fragment Abathur's workings? Why HER?
    No, the Great Betrayer was the Overmind. After all, his host body WAS built on top of the Overmind's corpse. This would mean the whole infesting Kerrigan process was something Amon viewed as the Overmind trying to defy him.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    I thought it refeted to Kerrigan, partly because that's what Selendis called Kerrigan in Into the Void.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    It's a shame that Rag's creative energies are being channeled to try and make sense of SC2's abysmal writing, clearly he's put 232198121248% more effort into this than any of the hack frauds at blizzard did.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I thought it refeted to Kerrigan, partly because that's what Selendis called Kerrigan in Into the Void.
    No it wouldn't. Amon specifically said with the essence of the Great Betrayer, the Khalai people would now fulfill their purpose. Remember, Duran's usage of Kerrigan's psionic energy was merely to release Amon from the Void, it had nothing to do with the host body.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    That I doubt, since her ascension wasn't really a normal one, Ouros merely pulled some strings and all that. The Protoss essence were tainted from Amon's uplifting, otherwise they could have done it themselves.
    Nothing's "normal" in Sc2, in general, so it can be whatever it likes really. Either way, the game/story wants to sell us that there can be only one (Kerrigan) to defeat Amon and having such a justification (the "sharing the same energy means its a weakness to exploit" thing), meager as it is, would've be better than the retconning of the foundations of the history regarding the purities in order to make it fit since this still keeps internal consistency with what has happened earlier on in Sc2 without mucking established things up. Even now, I still can't really piece together whether what Amon did to the Protoss actually meant they never had purity of form to begin with or not. It's bloody confusing is what it is!

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    But even then it still doesn't prove Kerrigan's psionic energies alone freed him.
    I'm not saying it proves one thing or another, I'm saying it's clearer/more cogent with the narrative that Sc2 is trying to sell if Infested Kerrigan's power was the only thing that can free Amon. I can't see why not consideing that the major theme of Sc2 is to show us how special, unique and powerful these singular characters are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I thought it refeted to Kerrigan, partly because that's what Selendis called Kerrigan in Into the Void.
    Rag's right about it referring to the Overmind. When Amon mentions "the Great Betrayer", the only thing that ever betrayed him specifically was the Overmind. It's very much like Warcraft's Nerzhul/the Lich King (the Overmind) betraying Kil'jaeden (Amon).
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  10. #20

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Rag's right about it referring to the Overmind. When Amon mentions "the Great Betrayer", the only thing that ever betrayed him specifically was the Overmind. It's very much like Warcraft's Nerzhul/the Lich King (the Overmind) betraying Kil'jaeden (Amon).
    Cool. I always wondered which it was. And Selendis' comment didn't help clarify things.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

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