Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 34 of 34

Thread: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

  1. #31

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    The plot needed nothing of the sort.
    Sure it did. The plot of the story is about fighting some special, big bad dude. The special big bad dude is supposed to be hard to kill so it "needs" a special way to kill it. Cue this "special way" of killing it. Plot resolved.

    Your path (of letting the special big bad dude just keep living when the story is about fighting this guy) just leads to an unresolved plot and an admission that the whole of Sc2 would be a waste of time - both of which would be deemed unsatisfactory to most people. Amon winning would also be an alternate but acceptable resolution to the plot but this has other consequences: it'd feel like Blizz are killing off their franchise, is at even greater risk of alienating fans and severely limits possibility of continuation without it seeming like a cashgrab (in short, not a wise business decision for Blizz to take). So yeah, regardless of subjective taste or the form this resolution took, the plot did actually "need" something to resolve itself. Like I said, a crap-ending beats never-ending crap anyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Which to me was wrong because Blizzard seemed (this is before we had any info on HotS) that they were trying to go for the redemption route, and Kerrigan's actions proved in the end the desire for revenge at any cost won out.
    I was talking about BW Kerrigan....

    Anyhoo, Sc2 has always seemed "wrong" in Blizz's insistence of protagonist-centred morality and how the writers fall into the trap of believing in that morality. You think this only happens in HotS, but it happened in WoL, too (Raynor's attacking of the Tal'darim for some money and then complaining they're giving him a hard time as if they should just give him things they possess like he's automatically entitled to them regardless is not justified even if the Tal'darim are truly fanatics or evil). The reason it feels like "mixed messages" is due to the writers wanting to impose their will on the story and wanting to interpret it for the audience (eg: everyone that disagrees with Kerrigan in HotS dies or suffers in someway and the writers want this to be seen as being good for Kerrigan because it's supposed to be some form of hero empowerment... even as it totally disregards the characters that have to suffer in order to fuel such empowerment). That you find Kerrigan's actions in HotS disagreeable is a good thing in my opinion, since you're offering an insight about yourself rather than adhering to the one view/intrepretation the writers want to steer you towards.

    Sc1 never does this. Things just happen. Good/evil is decided upon by the viewer/audience. That's what's great about it - the story invites the audience member to engage it on more levels than just the basic one of enjoying the plot progression.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  2. #32

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Sure it did. The plot of the story is about fighting some special, big bad dude. The special big bad dude is supposed to be hard to kill so it "needs" a special way to kill it. Cue this "special way" of killing it. Plot resolved.

    Your path (of letting the special big bad dude just keep living when the story is about fighting this guy) just leads to an unresolved plot and an admission that the whole of Sc2 would be a waste of time - both of which would be deemed unsatisfactory to most people. Amon winning would also be an alternate but acceptable resolution to the plot but this has other consequences: it'd feel like Blizz are killing off their franchise, is at even greater risk of alienating fans and severely limits possibility of continuation without it seeming like a cashgrab (in short, not a wise business decision for Blizz to take). So yeah, regardless of subjective taste or the form this resolution took, the plot did actually "need" something to resolve itself. Like I said, a crap-ending beats never-ending crap anyday.
    Yes and that was a bad thing for Amon because we hardly knew anything about him until LotV, and by then they tried to cram too much. Should have done it slowly, hence the need to let him live so we can learn more about him more gradually. That being said however, if someone never read the SC1 manual and tried to compare this to the Overmind....

  3. #33

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Should have done it slowly, hence the need to let him live so we can learn more about him more gradually.
    No, the logical conclusion is that they should have done it (talk about Amon) in the first two-thirds of the trilogy if he was supposed to be that important, not make another sequel to fix such a mistake (if it was indeed a mistake to not elucidate on him in the earlier parts).

    Given the dearth of information about Amon, one can only assume that Amon really isn't that important and therefore, should be wiped away and forgotten as is eventually done so in Sc2. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    This situation with Amon is sort of like the reverse of what happened to the UED. The UED do get quite a bit of limelight in BW only to be summarily expunged, with the whole impact of their presence seemingly removed by the end of BW/start of WoL. As such, they should have had some sort of consequence of their passing rather than feeling like nothing happened (ie: Mengsk seemingly being in the same spot as he was at the start of BW as it was in the end: in power). Instead, with the UED having no lasting impact/consequence, it unfortunately makes the focus on the UED in BW somewhat redundant/pointless no matter how affecting and interesting following the story of Dugalle and Stukov was.

    Comparatively, having the UED comeback seems more reasonable than it does with Amon, who had no real presence throughout Sc2 and actions didn't have any lasting consequence (the "no Khala" thing is only temporary because it only affects the current generation since new Protoss will still have nerve cords and now that Amon's dead, there's no risk anymore for using it), since the UED had a feeling of being important to the story even though they were just a conceit to provide a plot from a narrative perspective. Amon never feels important in Sc2, so having him comeback after doing nothing just so that he can do/be something just reeks of conceit/plot shenanigans.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  4. #34

    Default Re: Duran's Motives and the Tal'darim Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    No, the logical conclusion is that they should have done it (talk about Amon) in the first two-thirds of the trilogy if he was supposed to be that important, not make another sequel to fix such a mistake (if it was indeed a mistake to not elucidate on him in the earlier parts).

    Given the dearth of information about Amon, one can only assume that Amon really isn't that important and therefore, should be wiped away and forgotten as is eventually done so in Sc2. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    This situation with Amon is sort of like the reverse of what happened to the UED. The UED do get quite a bit of limelight in BW only to be summarily expunged, with the whole impact of their presence seemingly removed by the end of BW/start of WoL. As such, they should have had some sort of consequence of their passing rather than feeling like nothing happened (ie: Mengsk seemingly being in the same spot as he was at the start of BW as it was in the end: in power). Instead, with the UED having no lasting impact/consequence, it unfortunately makes the focus on the UED in BW somewhat redundant/pointless no matter how affecting and interesting following the story of Dugalle and Stukov was.

    Comparatively, having the UED comeback seems more reasonable than it does with Amon, who had no real presence throughout Sc2 and actions didn't have any lasting consequence (the "no Khala" thing is only temporary because it only affects the current generation since new Protoss will still have nerve cords and now that Amon's dead, there's no risk anymore for using it), since the UED had a feeling of being important to the story even though they were just a conceit to provide a plot from a narrative perspective. Amon never feels important in Sc2, so having him comeback after doing nothing just so that he can do/be something just reeks of conceit/plot shenanigans.
    Yes I felt the same. Failing that they should have tried to explain more on Amon even before SC2 came out. Originally I had hoped this would be the case in the DT Saga, then Blizzard ruined this by saying Ulrezaj's master was never Amon to begin with.

    The UED's comeback was something I had looked forward to since HotS and all that. Even before Stukov was telling Kerrigan about this, everyone had long suspected it. Shame they lost interest in the sector, at least for the time being. Thus hopefully Amon's offensive never reached Earth, so the UED will remain strong there, and we get to see them again in the future.

Similar Threads

  1. [SPOILERS] Tal'Darim
    By Visions of Khas in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-01-2016, 04:43 PM
  2. New Tal'Darim Short Story: Ascension
    By Visions of Khas in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-14-2015, 09:37 PM
  3. [Video] Revenge of the Tal'Darim Machinima
    By davidko in forum Off-Topic Lounge
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-10-2010, 06:33 PM
  4. Tal'darim in Wings of Liberty
    By RolleR_RATM in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 08-09-2010, 01:37 PM
  5. Duran in WoL?
    By Jdawsman in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 08-09-2010, 01:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •