SC3 Plot Ideas

[TheEconomist]

This. Since Gna was asking about the morality of Kerrigans acts before BW being potentially sound, this act in BW is particularly heinous from a human moral/ethical viewpoint.

From a Zerg viewpoint, [insert any of many possible Zerg "morale" decisions], therefore, causing there to be less of them is a morale decision.

[Gradius]

Looking over the transcript in BW, I can't find anything about Fenix mentioning that Moria sold out or is part of the UED. All I can find where Fenix even mentions both is this line:

"It is strange that this Kel-Morian Combine continues to operate whilst the UED grips the Dominion with an iron fist".

That he finds it strange they are still operating whilst all this stuff is going one could just as well mean that the KMC are autonomous and being left alone to pursue their own agendas than it does that they are in cahoots with the UED. No-one in the game even mentions that KMC is in cahoots with the UED or the Dominion at all really.

Moria was part of the Dominion after SC1, so you answered your own question with the quote. Even Stukov says "We are here to take control of the Terran Dominion and all of its outlying colonies." So after they do that, they moved on to the Overmind.

You can call it a war crime all you want Gradius. If you can't get over the fact that she could not have come out of the whole infestation years the same person (or go back to being that person within a few days or something).....

In BW, it was done as part of the war effort against the UED. In HoTS, it was against actual civilians due to cocooned colonist and ruined apartment building doodads, plus sacking all the planets irrelevant to attacking Korhal.

[Nissa]

Gradius, if you could point out what part of the game/manual/other says that Moria was part of the Dominion (preferably not SC2-era retcon) I would appreciate it.

On moria, that planet was heavily militarized. And as Fenix pointed out, he doesn't like "raids" but rather full battle. So it was more of a raid, but gameplay demanded and allowed for something else.

I still feel that this was an attack on more or less civilians. Yes, Moria is militarized, but that's like calling the US militarized -- we have military bases, but we also have lots of places that aren't military bases. The target they were going after, that is to say, the mineral resources, were more than likely not mined by military forces, but by regular people or guilds. Probably those people had been mining Moria for years, and possibly had never even left the planet before. Moria is, after all, one of the three worlds originally settled by humans in the K Sector. There would be a large civilian presence there. Probably lots of husbands and sons working the mines. Quite frankly, this is the most despicable act of BW, imo, and Fenix and Raynor's actions are indefensible. Sure, Kerrigan wanted minerals, so you can see Zerg going after Moria, but for regular people to want to kill civilians in order to make the Zerg stronger is disturbing, whether Moria was part of the Dominion or not.

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Gradius, if you could point out what part of the game/manual/other says that Moria was part of the Dominion (preferably not SC2-era retcon) I would appreciate it.

On moria, that planet was heavily militarized. And as Fenix pointed out, he doesn't like "raids" but rather full battle. So it was more of a raid, but gameplay demanded and allowed for something else.

I still feel that this was an attack on more or less civilians. Yes, Moria is militarized, but that's like calling the US militarized -- we have military bases, but we also have lots of places that aren't military bases. The target they were going after, that is to say, the mineral resources, were more than likely not mined by military forces, but by regular people or guilds. Probably those people had been mining Moria for years, and possibly had never even left the planet before. Moria is, after all, one of the three worlds originally settled by humans in the K Sector. There would be a large civilian presence there. Probably lots of husbands and sons working the mines. Quite frankly, this is the most despicable act of BW, imo, and Fenix and Raynor's actions are indefensible. Sure, Kerrigan wanted minerals, so you can see Zerg going after Moria, but for regular people to want to kill civilians in order to make the Zerg stronger is disturbing, whether Moria was part of the Dominion or not.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

I'm pretty sure it states that the KMC was part of the dominion in one of those green-text cards.

Kerrigan is a vile terrorist from beginning to end.

but at least in SC1 it was intetionally a morally grey (at best) game instead of SC2's STARCRAFT HEROES! nonsense.

[ragnarok]

In BW, it was done as part of the war effort against the UED. In HoTS, it was against actual civilians due to cocooned colonist and ruined apartment building doodads, plus sacking all the planets irrelevant to attacking Korhal.

Yes well Kerrigan was probably right about the UED and all that. In HotS, you really don't know that when it comes to attacking Korhal. A fundamental rule of war is you're not supposed to underestimate your enemy. Kerrigan already did this during the Char invasion for WoL and look how that turned out.

[Gradius]

Gradius, if you could point out what part of the game/manual/other says that Moria was part of the Dominion (preferably not SC2-era retcon) I would appreciate it.

It's from the BW manual. It says that all the koprulu colonies were united under one ruler for the first time.

[ragnarok]

It's from the BW manual. It says that all the koprulu colonies were united under one ruler for the first time.

It was only during the BW times? I thought the KMC joined the Dominion at some point during the events of SC1 (can't tell which part in the timeline of the zerg or protoss campaign though)

[Turalyon]

From a Zerg viewpoint, [insert any of many possible Zerg "morale" decisions], therefore, causing there to be less of them is a morale decision.

Only humans get hung up on issues of morality/ethics. I didn't think I had to point that out specifically but thanks for doing so?

It's from the BW manual. It says that all the koprulu colonies were united under one ruler for the first time.

Gah, I forgot about this. I got thrown by your comment about Fenix mentioning Moria is a part of the Dominion and sold out to them.

Still, I consider the KMC as still being an important and distinct enough entity away from Mengsk's core Dominion holdings and authority to be worthy of moral consideration because if we generalise that all Terran worlds as being "the Dominion" (as it plainly is according to the BW manual), then every Terran is essentially "fair game" (ie: not civilian but military targets) to Kerrigan.

[TheEconomist]

Only humans get hung up on issues of morality/ethics.

Given the Kerrigan arc in discussion, it's notable. Especially since you're analyzing (I assume) the believability of the Zerg/Human/Redemption ... "story"/retcon.

Also, obligatory caveat that Protoss, also, and quite more so, get caught up on morality.

[Robear]

Also, obligatory caveat that Protoss, also, and quite more so, get caught up on morality.

Yeah, if that traitor Tassadar had gone ahead and purified Mar Sara, everything could have turned out completely different. Or if he'd vaporized Tarsonis instead of landing and fighting the Zerg on the ground, maybe Kerrigan never gets infested.