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Thread: How to Rework Starcraft II

  1. #141

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    I think they're done with Kerrigan. For better or worse.

    And getting some of Amon's perspective would have been cool (ala Reign of Chaos Undead campaign I suppose) but honestly I think even with that the whole Golden Armada plotline should have been resolved by -- at the latest -- the halfway point.

    The whole SC2 campaign is a bit too monomaniacal with each storyline (except Wings of Liberty -- which just doesn't resolve anything). Like mengsk should have been dealt with by at the absolutely LATEST 60% mark in the campaign. That dragged on way too long.
    For Mengsk's case, they wanted Kerrigan to be the one to kill her. That's fine, but if that's truly what they wanted, Raynor should have just deinfested her much early on in the campaign, and then we can spend the rest of WoL to have him killed.

  2. #142

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I can accept that but this is an indictment of the character that is depicted as "Rohana", not really an indictment of the character being presented/misrepresented of a particular sex though. For me, the issue is that the character is just a "hat" irrespective of the sex of who is wearing it.
    If this were just a SC problem, I would agree with you. The truth of the matter is, writers of movies/games/books care so much about making a woman "powerful" that they sacrifice good characters for feminist messages. The male characters suck in SC for different reasons (except Dehaka, he fits the boring/powerful mold too, but has no PC motivations behind him).

    My plain, simple point is this. In purely writing terms, it does not matter if any character is powerful. It only matters if they're interesting. Heck, Raynor accomplishes basically nothing positive in SC/BW, but he's an amazing character. Because California is hip-deep in PC messages, anything that even appears to defy PC sentiment invites antagonism, and not merely concerning feminism. Good writing will only return when people care more about good story than offending people who say things like "micro-aggression." A woman can be powerful and non-PC, but we're not going to see that until Blizz gets it.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  3. #143

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa
    A woman can be powerful and non-PC, but we're not going to see that until Blizz gets it.
    In your opinion, who is a good fictional female character?
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  4. #144
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    In your opinion, who is a good fictional female character?
    Ilia Volyova from Revelation Space.

  5. #145
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Ilia Volyova from Revelation Space.
    Damn straight, badass female done right.

    Although I'm sure a feminist would call her a "Man with Tits" trope.

    Nissa is right though. The respose by feminists to the female characters in Game of Thrones proves it. The series has some of the best female characters I know of, yet, feminists can only talk about my it shows the patriarchy can only allow bitchy, crazy women to be in power, as if the men are somehow better ...?
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 04-12-2016 at 05:56 PM.



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  6. #146

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    If this were just a SC problem, I would agree with you.
    But we are talking only about Sc2 here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    The truth of the matter is, writers of movies/games/books care so much about making a woman "powerful" that they sacrifice good characters for feminist messages.
    By that same accord, I should lament that most pop-fiction is all about making a man/men "powerful" that they sacrifice good characters for masculinist messages. It cuts both ways.

    It's not necessarily a bad thing though. If the genre is action, one should expect "powerful" characters (being "well-written" is not always a prerequisite) whether male or female, unless the fictional universe sets up a notion (not a preconceived one) for why it shouldn't be.

    Besides, what you seem to be referring to is but one facet of a thing called tokenism in general. Really, one could endlessly accuse every piece of fiction ever made of this at one point or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    My plain, simple point is this. In purely writing terms, it does not matter if any character is powerful. It only matters if they're interesting.
    This I can agree on. Sc2 has a distinct lack of interesting (but powerful) characters, whether they happen to be male or female is inconsequential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Heck, Raynor accomplishes basically nothing positive in SC/BW, but he's an amazing character.
    Amazing? Eh, to me, he was boring from the get-go and still is. A classic male protagonist archetype. He's just your typical "everyman" character that the audience member can identify with and he does that serviceably well. Mengsk on the hand, he was interesting and had potential in Sc1... and then he becomes/remains as a caricature from BW onwards.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  7. #147

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    I don't think Mengsk is really a caricature in Brood War. If anything he's the victim of someone who's just more of a megalomaniac than he is.

    And yes tokenism and the inability to please a feminist narrative (or the bulk of feminist audience members) without making the female character incredibly stale is a problem. That doesn't necessarily mean including a multitude of female characters with authority/strength in some sense (especially in an action game narrative, which requires these qualities) is a downside.


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  8. #148

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    In your opinion, who is a good fictional female character?
    Oh, there's so many....

    Mattie Ross from the John Wayne version of True Grit.
    Kasuga Ayumu from Azumanga Daioh. Actually, the whole female cast of Azumanga Daioh.
    Sonya Blade from Mortal Kombat 1995.
    Eowyn from LOTR.
    The bratty chicks from O Brother Where Art Thou? and Taken. You don't have to be a good person to be a good character.


    Oh Tura, just take my word for it already. And read Aldrius' post.

    I don't think Mengsk is really a caricature in Brood War. If anything he's the victim of someone who's just more of a megalomaniac than he is.
    Chris Metzen?
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  9. #149

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    I don't think Mengsk is really a caricature in Brood War. If anything he's the victim of someone who's just more of a megalomaniac than he is.
    So blame the Confederacy for that. That being said, how do you think Mengsk's path would have gone if the Confederacy never ordered Kerrigan to kill his father?

  10. #150

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Oh, there's so many....

    Mattie Ross from the John Wayne version of True Grit.
    Kasuga Ayumu from Azumanga Daioh. Actually, the whole female cast of Azumanga Daioh.
    Sonya Blade from Mortal Kombat 1995.
    Eowyn from LOTR.
    The bratty chicks from O Brother Where Art Thou? and Taken. You don't have to be a good person to be a good character.


    Oh Tura, just take my word for it already. And read Aldrius' post.
    Honestly hollywood probably has the worst reputation for female characters ever.

    Even anime and video games fare better than the bulk of Hollywood.


    The Mother of all Queens!

    Thanks to Dynamik- for the signature!

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