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Thread: How to Rework Starcraft II

  1. #91

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    It's already happened. A couple of times. I have yet to overreact. Again, you are not some fount of wisdom. Please, please, please stop with the cliche absolutes.
    Neither have I, not to that extent anyways. Regardless, these cliches are necessary. You just don't see why just yet.

  2. #92
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Regardless, these cliches are necessary. You just don't see why just yet.


    I wonder Rag, how is that you think you've obtained such great wisdom doing nothing but spamming StarCraft forums? Call me when you've done something, kid. Haha. Hilarious.
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 03-21-2016 at 09:52 PM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  3. #93

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Then you can look at the new thread I'm putting up.

  4. #94

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    Fanatic Templar went into detail about how Kerrigan was actually a.) incompetent and b.) inconsistent. Aldrius basically put his hands in his ears and said LALALALALALALALALA I'm not listening LALALALALALALALALA! I quoted Hawki earlier but honestly I think Aldrius is in denial and can't admit Brood War actually isn't that good a story. In terms of character evolution HOTS Kerrigan kills Brood War Kerrigan, desecrates the corpse and shits on the grave. Being introspective is not a bad thing. If you only play as a colossal asshole it gets boring. Aldrius seems to think Kerrigan should only ever be evil and violent. I LIKE my characters actually being forced to address whether or not what they do is wrong and possibly changing for the better. HOTS had problems. Kerrigan being forced to face her actions and think about them was not one of them.

    I freely acknowledge HOTS had problems. That's why I suggested this thread in the first place. But those who claim Brood War is a good story are kidding themselves
    You didn't actually respond to anything I said yet -- without quoting someone else as if they're an authority on storytelling and not just another poster on a web forum, so I'm still waiting for you to respond. Not agreeing with a point doesn't mean I ignored it.

    The follow up to Brood War SHOULD have been her turning human again and having to face up to all the awful things she's done, that is the natural continuation of the storyline and a very strong direction to take it in. But not in the way Heart did it, and she should have ACTUALLY BEEN PUNISHED. Characters should not have reacted to Kerrigan and just NOT CARED about what she did in Brood War.

    But Raynor? Zeratul? Artanis? None of them GIVE A SHIT. What the hell IS that? Zeratul just goes back to his default 'prophecy' stance. Nothing about how this woman manipulated him and forced him to kill the one person he cared about. Raynor is just... horny I guess. No conflict there whatsoever, this woman has been on a killing spree since Overmind. he's been bit in the ass for trusting her and trying to see the best in her before and now he just... doesn't care. Artanis seems warier of Zeratul than he does of Kerrigan. This from the guy who swore revenge on her at the end of Brood War and basically said they'd never forget what she'd done. Kerrigan doesn't earn her redemption at all, it's pathetic. And then at the end of the story she turns into an angel and gets to live happily ever after with Jim Raynor.

    WHAT?

    That's how the followup to THIS ends?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIt4tmkvVtE

    A power-mad dictator declaring her ultimate victory over her enemies sort of dryly observing the end result of her victory like Sun Tzu or something while her incredibly moralistic and righteous opponent commits suicide over the guilt that he just can't handle. THIS is followed up with by that exact same character righteously declaring "I choose FREEDOM!"? It's the most bipolar nonsense. And then she runs off with Jim Raynor in the sappiest way possible. You want to end it that way? Fine. But it had damn well better be earned.

    Yes there are some flaws in Brood War, but they're mostly mechanical and have to do with dealing with the medium itself (needing stuff for people to fight over on maps is why there's so many McGuffins for example), revisiting the same locations over and over is due to the limited number of tile sets available. And there are some poorly handled sequences (like the whole Matriarch-Zeratul-Kerrigan thing doesn't bug me that much, but I concede the way it's presented it makes Zeratul look pretty stupid rather than just not wanting to believe the Matriarch could or has been corrupted).

    But I'm not gonna act like there should have been some scene where Kerrigan sits there all weepy about the things she's done and pines for Jim Raynor, that would have been awful. That would have made her look like a massive hypocrite, a weak-willed school girl who can't handle what needs to be done to achieve the goals she's laid out for herself. It makes her seem so infantile and ignorant.

    Power has a cost. And that cost is usually destroying good people who don't deserve it. That's Brood War's treatise -- particularly True Colours. Kerrigan DOES think she's morally righteous in Brood War. That's what her whole conversations with Fenix, Duke, Mengsk and Raynor are all about. Now she has the power, now she decides what's right and what's wrong, and the universe will have to accept it.

    That's consistent. Having your protagonist have consistent behaviours and goals is not bad writing. Having a character who has an objective and sticks to that objective through out the story doesn't make them boring or bland or whatever you're trying to argue.
    Last edited by Aldrius; 03-23-2016 at 06:26 PM.


    The Mother of all Queens!

    Thanks to Dynamik- for the signature!

  5. #95

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    A power-mad dictator declaring her ultimate victory over her enemies sort of dryly observing the end result of her victory like Sun Tzu or something while her incredibly moralistic and righteous opponent commits suicide over the guilt that he just can't handle. THIS is followed up with by that exact same character righteously declaring "I choose FREEDOM!"? It's the most bipolar nonsense. And then she runs off with Jim Raynor in the sappiest way possible. You want to end it that way? Fine. But it had damn well better be earned.
    This is what a lot of people I spoke to online said, even those who supported the relationship, and I agreed with them. In the end, Kerrigan sacrificed NOTHING in order to get what she wanted. Even if she really wasn't able to be together with Raynor in the end, that's way too small of a sacrifice. Her actions on Kaldir and the evolution missions involving killing Protoss were ignored in LotV, and while Amon's threat had to be dealt with, Artanis should have at least raised such an issue with her.

    Assuming the war against Amon forced it on hold, that's perfectly acceptable, but it cannot be cancelled. Kerrigan admitted many times over in HotS she'll have to pay the price for what she did once the war with Mengsk was over, she should have realized that just because Amon entered the picture would NOT mean everyone will simply forget her past actions.

    Furthermore, her actions against the Protoss are inconsistent as seen in HotS and LotV. On one hand, she felt killing the Protoss on Kaldir was necessary to prevent them from contacting Shakuras. If you do this after Zerus, it'd imply she still respected the Protoss' firepower as she's admitting even with the primal transformation, she's no match for their fleet without the swarm.

    But on the other hand, she scorned Zeratul's actions in the 1st prologue mission. Granted she might have felt she had been tricked by him on the Zerus matter, but in that sense she felt the Protoss people were just stupid. This would then explain why she didn't bother taking the feral Zerg broods off Aiur, as she would have felt the Firstborn were too dumb to do anything other than play into Amon's hands. This arrogance was EXACTLY the reason why her swarm got shredded at Ulnar for her foolish belief that "the swarm pwns all."

  6. #96
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    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    no
    -1

  7. #97

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Boring, DDay. You'll have to do better than that. Besides, I try to work with what was given in the 3 games and try to find a way around it.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Boring, DDay. You'll have to do better than that. Besides, I try to work with what was given in the 3 games and try to find a way around it.
    stay bronze, boi

  9. #99

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by DDay View Post
    stay bronze, boi
    It's exactly comments like that that got you unwelcome in the general forums on battlenet.

  10. #100

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by DDay View Post
    no
    -1
    ou bby did you get banned from battle.net?
    Arcturus Mengsk did nothing wrong. Tarsonis is just a conspiracy theory.

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