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Thread: How to Rework Starcraft II

  1. #51

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    That remains to be seen in the story the game represents. All we know from the game is that Kerrigan is ultimately a willing accomplice to Mengsk.



    Her condemnation is little more than a passive "I don't like it" rather than anything else. Actions/Non-actions speak louder than words and she did nothing to distance herself from the atrocities that were being committed. She is therefore complicit.

    As to the "not making sense" why she's killing people now, that's easy to counter. She is an assassin first of all and a willing one under Mengsk. Being a self-possessed assassin takes a sort of certain mind so she's someone compromised morally there already. If you couple that with the realisation of being abused through the changes brought about due to the betrayal of Mengsk (she put more trust in this guy than Raynor) and with her time with the Zerg, it actually makes sense that once she is finally free of all her abusers and now has power (as she is in BW), she's going to do anything to maintain that independence no matter what.



    I find it ironic that for one who lauds her for undergoing change (which is arguable in itself) in HotS, somehow cannot fathom or even appreciate the possibility that she changed throughout Sc1 to BW.
    Oh she changed. It was a complete 180 from what she was before though, going from a relatively nuanced character to "MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'M EVUL HOR HOR HOR!!" It's not that she didn't change, it's just that her change was fucking stupid.

    She had no reason to do what she did to the protoss in brood war at all. Yet she twisted the knife in for sadistic amusement. That doesn't scream "I'm never going to let myself be abused again." That just screams HOR HOR HOR I EVOUL.

    She DOES change in Heart of the Swarm overall

    In the intro missions she's conflicted; she wants to make Mengsk suffer for his crimes but at the same time she's scared of the darkness within and open to the idea of leaving it behind and having a normal life, as demonstrated by these pieces of dialogue

    1.) Cinematic - TransmissionEdit
    Transmission SC2-HotS VCine102:59
    Transmission SC2-HotS VCine1
    Kerrigan: Jim? Are you on this frequency?
    Kerrigan: Jim, are you out there?
    Kerrigan: I┤m at the rendezvous, it┤s all clear here.
    Kerrigan: I┤ve been thinking about what you said.
    Kerrigan: there┤s something dark in me, Jimů
    Kerrigan: I need you. I need you to hear me right now.

    She aims her gun at the zergling and after hearing Mengsk's gloating, she has an emotional outburst and then seems angry and determined when saying "confirmed".

    2.) Kerrigan: "Kill them all. No one gets out alive."
    Naktul: "Yes! The Queen has returned. Kill the Terrans."
    Kerrigan: "The Queen? You're right. I was slipping back into something that-I have to get out of here."

    After Mensk's evil gloating about Raynor's death, she's in an "ends justify the means" mode. She feels guilty about what she did to Lassara and doesn't take pleasure in it (and angrily tells Izsha to shut up when Izsha asks if killing Mengsk will bring her joy.) However, she's willing to do WHATEVER it takes to get revenge.

    After Zerus and Char, though, things begin to change. She shows mercy to Warfield's men rather than simply slaughtering them, and if you look at her facial features from 1:50-1:57 in the following link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzT2mUTFwH0 you see them softening as she carries out the command. She's no longer cold like she was in the 1st part.

    When Mengsk tells her "That man sacrificed everything to give you back your humanity. And you threw it away. How he must be disgusted by you. Why he'd be the first in line to kill you." Kerrigan looks.....upset. It's pretty clear what mengsk said rings true, and she's starting to realize how selfish she's being. She also spares Stukov in spite of their past history.

    When she and Raynor meet on the Moros and Raynor asks "What have you done?" The way she says "What I....had too." makes it pretty clear that at this point she's trying to convince herself. She was pretty resolute on Kaldir, but now she's rattled. Her faith in the justness of her actions has been undermined. Finally, on Korhal during her conversation with Valerian she doesn't notice Raynor and was shocked by his arrival in such a way she REALLY didn't expect it. That implies that a.) she didn't agree to spare civilians just to please Raynor and b.) Kerrigan DID ultimately agree to spare civilians because it was the right thing to do.

    Kerrigan at the end of Heart is NOT the same as the Kerrigan at the start. She actually evolves and grows over the course of the story, starting as a conflicted individual, than a vengeful warrior hellbent on revenge and fuck the consequences, has a heel realization and finally settles as an anti hero who isn't nice but gives a shit about life.

  2. #52

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    She had no reason to do what she did to the protoss in brood war at all. Yet she twisted the knife in for sadistic amusement. That doesn't scream "I'm never going to let myself be abused again." That just screams HOR HOR HOR I EVOUL.
    She does. She even says why she did it in the campaign in question. She doesn't like the Protoss, they`re her enemies, they`re a threat to her. What part of that is confusing?

    And even if it's not a legitimate point, or legitimate for her to think that, she still believes it. Which makes it valid.
    Last edited by Aldrius; 03-12-2016 at 04:42 AM.


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  3. #53

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    She does. She even says why she did it in the campaign in question. She doesn't like the Protoss, they`re her enemies, they`re a threat to her. What part of that is confusing?

    And even if it's not a legitimate point, or legitimate for her to think that, she still believes it. Which makes it valid.
    The protoss humiliated her that one time. That's it.

    Before the infestation she was morally opposed to using the zerg even on the people who you know tortured her for a decade and destroyed her life. Now she's willing to do this horrible thing for a petty insight. The explanation makes no real sense.

    I was never really impressed with Brood War Kerrigan all that much. Just evil for the sake of it.

    Compare her with Darth Vader: Vader's ultimately a tragic figure in that while he's evil he knows what he's become, is aware that it's his fault and legitimately hates himself for it. He sticks with it because he thinks it's too late to go back. Beneath the badassdom and coolness is a surprisingly tragic and complex individual. Kerrigan.....she had the past but her actions were only evil for the sake of it.

    HOTS by contrast she does bad things but her motivation is more believable. She lost her one chance at a normal life and vengeance is all she has left, so she embraces her darker nature until finally forced to face what she's become, at which point she finally finds balance between being zerg and human and becomes an anti hero who, while not nice, is ultimately a better person than the queen of blades. Heart of the Swarm was uneven at places in it's development; having a linear storyline would have helped. But I find the idea of a Kerrigan who evolves over the course of the story and has more facets to her infinitely more compelling than the total pigshit we got in brood war. Even at her worst in Heart it was a lot easier to root for her than it EVER was in brood war.

    SC2 was uneven and didn't have it's themes well but in some ways it was more ambitious than BW or even the original. WOL underlying themes were redemption and facing the past; HOTS's themes were identity and vengeance (vengeance was a miss, identity worked fine); LOTV was change and the need to adapt. It didn't miss but a lot of the underlying ideas (Kerrigan's redemption, Amon and the hybrids) were quite sound and had the potential to infinitely outclass brood war.

  4. #54

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    Oh she changed. It was a complete 180 from what she was before though, going from a relatively nuanced character to "MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'M EVUL HOR HOR HOR!!" It's not that she didn't change, it's just that her change was fucking stupid.
    Of course it was a 180 turn, her life was wrecked beyond repair with the dual effects of being betrayed by the person she placed complete faith in and then being transfigured by the Overmind. You expect someone to stay the same after something like that happening to them? She's a damaged person acting out petulantly because after finally being freed from a lifetime of slavery to others, she can only see others as potential enslavers and must therefore act accordingly to prevent anyone from getting the better of her ever again. Either way, it's clear to me that you aren't interested in trying to understand why BW Kerrigan is the way she is given how you just ignore the prefectly reasonable justification I've given and just continue to say that she's evil for the sake of being evil without actually trying to counter any of my points.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    She had no reason to do what she did to the protoss in brood war at all. Yet she twisted the knife in for sadistic amusement. That doesn't scream "I'm never going to let myself be abused again." That just screams HOR HOR HOR I EVOUL.
    The Protoss made a fool of her so she's going to pay that back, with interest. It's her way of showing that she's in control now.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    She DOES change in Heart of the Swarm overall
    I never denied that and I thought we we're just talking about BW Kerrigan here, not comparing her to HotS.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  5. #55

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    The most interesting arc in SC2 that might not actually be insulting to fans of sci-fi? No. :P
    I think it's very insulting. Besides being both a retcon and a cliche, it doesn't add anything to the plot. We didn't need it.

    Why would they build something as giant and resource intensive as an arkship after having their civilization nearly vaporized instead of just building more ships/weapons
    Well, I was going on the assumption that the Spear of Adun would be kept. However, if it can be replaced by technology that's better, more story driven, or just in any way more interesting, that's alright by me.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  6. #56

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    The protoss humiliated her that one time. That's it.
    She says she does it to defeat the Cerebrates on Shakuras. And then her subsequent actions are to use Zeratul to defeat the Overmind on Char.

    She's apathetic about whether or not she hurts them in the process, and wants payback on Zeratul for what happened on Char. Not 'for the evil', but for the sake of her own power. Which is what she's primarily concerned with at that point.

    Even Fenix, she flat out says '[he] is uncanilly resourceful' and 'must be eliminated'. That's practical, that's not just for her sadism (even though she is also a sadist). These things are done for practical reasons.


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  7. #57

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    The Protoss made a fool of her so she's going to pay that back, with interest. It's her way of showing that she's in control now.
    Except she took this way too far as shown in BW. What happened to Raszagal should have burned all the bridges. For those who wanted her to die, they certainly had a point when it came to that, and her inability to accept any responsibility was supposed to come back to bite her had it not been for Amon's actions in LotV

  8. #58

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Of course it was a 180 turn, her life was wrecked beyond repair with the dual effects of being betrayed by the person she placed complete faith in and then being transfigured by the Overmind. You expect someone to stay the same after something like that happening to them? She's a damaged person acting out petulantly because after finally being freed from a lifetime of slavery to others, she can only see others as potential enslavers and must therefore act accordingly to prevent anyone from getting the better of her ever again. Either way, it's clear to me that you aren't interested in trying to understand why BW Kerrigan is the way she is given how you just ignore the prefectly reasonable justification I've given and just continue to say that she's evil for the sake of being evil without actually trying to counter any of my points.



    The Protoss made a fool of her so she's going to pay that back, with interest. It's her way of showing that she's in control now.



    I never denied that and I thought we we're just talking about BW Kerrigan here, not comparing her to HotS.
    I never expected her to be the same. I could buy her being obsessed with revenge and being so determined that anyone who got in her way (the protoss for instance) would suffer. I don't buy her being sadistic over something as being outsmarted that one time.

    Again. Vengeful, obsessed to the point where whoever gets in her way gets hurt, being willing to discard things like civilian casualties? All plausible. What we got in brood war? Nope.

  9. #59

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    I actually had a vague idea of a brood war rewrite.

    Ulrezaj would have formed an unholy alliance with Daggoth in order to get revenge on the khalai outcasts. He helps Daggoth gain the high ground in his war with Kerrigan, Daggoth helps him wipe out the khalai. Kerrigan approaches the Khalai and Nezarim, arguing that they have common interests (she wants Daggoth gone, they want Ulrezaj gone, and neither can stand against their unholy union alone.) Ulrezaj is repulsed and Kerrigan parts on amicable terms.

    All in all I think Kerrigan the complex anti hero is more interested; she wouldn't be evil per se, but she'd be darker and a lot more willing to bust heads and screw civilian casualties.

  10. #60

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Kerrigan doesn't actually kill civilians in Brood War... there's probably some caught up in the collateral damage from blowing the grid in Talematros, but that's about it. And that was hardly her intended goal.

    It's only in WoL where the whole 'civilians!' thing is brought into focus.

    Again. Vengeful, obsessed to the point where whoever gets in her way gets hurt, being willing to discard things like civilian casualties? All plausible. What we got in brood war? Nope.
    What we got in Brood War was a woman consumed by revenge. Part of that revenge was obviously how she was humiliated on Char and they opposed her for an extended period of time.

    Not just because Tassadar outsmarted her once.


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