Page 1 of 26 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 252

Thread: How to Rework Starcraft II

  1. #1

    Default How to Rework Starcraft II

    Okay, now that Legacy of the Void is out I think it's safe to say that the final verdict is an ambitious but ultimately flawed series. Unlike many I think that many of the ideas therein COULD have worked. Kerrigan's redemption could be explained as how the infestation/amon's taint amplified things like rage and anger and suppressed things like empathy and compassion. Notes: Amon is still the big bad, Kerrigan still tries to undergo redemption, the final fight is against Amon and his soldiers. That outline remains intact. Your job is to try and make a good story out of it.

    What I think went wrong

    WOL:

    The overall story arc is Raynor facing his inner demons and coming to terms with his past before finally forgiving himself and moving on as a character. Chris Metzen said the original plan would have been for Raynor to make more mistakes over the course of the game before finally facing his past and redeeming himself. Blizzard also stated that the actual intent was that Raynor HAD given up on Kerrigan; when Valerian showed him what the artifact could do he realized that she could be rehabilitated and was given the choice between hoping again and wallowing in despair. Since he's sick of wallowing in despair, he ultimately decides to give Valerian's crazy scheme a try


    HOTS: The biggest problem here is that Blizzard didn't really know what the fuck they wanted to do. According to earlier reports Kerrigan would have not only spared Lassara and her fellows but even gotten to befriend Lassarra and earn her respect. However, Blizzard ALSO wanted to have a Kerrigan so consumed by revenge she didn't care what happened up until she finally faces what she's become and finally becomes a better person in the final three missions. Unfortunately those two themes are kinda incompatible and as such Kerrigan was a schizophrenic mess.

    I would have made it that Kerrigan was more...conflicted. She's fully aware of just what she's done as the Queen of Blades, and is scared of the darkness that lurks within her heart. However, the resistance doesn't have the firepower needed to save Raynor and the Protoss are too busy with their shit. Kerrigan realizes that the only way to save Jim is to get the power of the Swarm. I proposed a modified version of Rowan Seven's initial speculations to Ragnarok about a month or two back.

    "If you get to Heart of the Swarm Rowan Seven's idea might be the best way to go. This is my rough summation.

    Start: Kerrigan flees Hyperion after the Zerg attack under Amon's control. There's a brief awkward reunion as Kerrigan tries to come to terms with what happened. Kerrigan flees both to save Jim (since she's the target) and to get time to think. She crashlands on a world with a minor prescence (place Naktul here) and we get some intro missions of Kerrigan learning how to control the Zerg. Kerrigan fights off the dominion commander who eventually corners her. Zeratul shows up and saves her to her surprise. She and the queen get the hell out of dodge with zeratul.

    Zeratul reveals to Kerrigan the details of the prophecy and how she's the only one who can save all life from the fire. He tags along, serving as a mentor figure. The relationship is badly strained because Kerrigan is guilty over what she did to Raszegal.

    Branch 1: The Brood Queen gives missions to recruit the other swarms. This could be shit like Kaldir, Char etc. On Kaldir, Kerrigan spares Lassara and her fellow researchers (those alive when the blood bath ended); Kerrigan is once more faced with reminders of her past.

    Branch 2: Zeratul gives out missions trying to find out about the hybrids. This crosses over with Jim, and the uncomfortable relationship between them. This climaxes in Skygeir station, where we get Stukov and the fight with Duran. After Duran is beaten he flees with his tale between his legs and Kerrigan and Stukov blow the base to hell.

    Branch 3: Kerrigan discovers a rogue Cerebrate that somehow survived the purge. The cerebrate doesn't like her but fears Amon's darkness even more. Kerrigan saves him (Having gotten the sos) and he promises to teach her more about the overmind and why she was created. This includes flashbacks about the Zerg's origins, while the mission is saving him, or doing a few things. The cerebrate joins the swarm eventually, and is given a new life (he's no longer dying slowly).

    Final Branch: Aiur: As Selendis launches the reclamation of Aiur, Kerrigan and her crew fight their way to the overmind corpse. Zeratul has left her. (this is my addition). Kerrigan sees Tassadar's ghost, who in turn brings the remnants of the overmind (my take is over). Kerrigan demands answers; the overmind reveals that he created her to save the zerg from Amon. He also reveals that not only did the artifact purge the last bit of Amon's taint from her, but Tassadar's sacrifice did the same with his corpse. If Kerrigan absorbs his essence she'll be able to control the rest of the swarm not under Amon's thrall (Amon has gained control of some brood mothers). The overmind tells her that this is her choice. Rayner (who is there) protests, since he fought so hard to get Kerrigan back; in any case what if the infestation supresses her morality like last time. Kerrigan debates her choices and decides that she can't let the universe die. She accepts the overmind's offer. She has Abathur modify the process (she has her morality this time) and steps into her fate. Unfortunately the Protoss are now aware of what's going on so Kerrigan's forces have to defend the Site while Kerrigan ascends. Kerrigan ascends. Tassadar's spirit rematerializes (he can only appear sporadically) and manages to Just tell Selendis about the threat they face and how Kerrigan is needed. At this point his jailers drag him back into the void away from the rest of the protoss. The two factions join together in preparation for the end."

    Kerrigan's ascension would thus be a painful sacrifice for the greater good; to stop Amon she's willing to abandon her chance at happiness. We also get more insight into Amon's past rather than having it all dumped in Legacy.

    I was also planning on maybe even having Mengsk try to redeem himself. As he gets weaker Amon's forces (Ulrezaj and his followers, Duran) are pretty much the sole source of his power. Mengsk is basically their bitch. Mengsk finally gets a glimpse of Amon's plan and even he is horrified. He finally reflects on his life choices and tries to make one last shot at redemption. He tries to send the information on all the Hybrid factories, maybe even the Revanscar one. He succeeds but dies in the process.

    It's like Red Mist in Kick Ass 3. He makes a genuine attempt to make amends but it's unclear whether or not it was really enough to truly atone for his sins.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    For me DarthYam, it we had tried to work with LotV given what was presented in HotS, I wouldn't have had Amon had the power to corrupt the Khala at all. Zeratul should have remained respected by the whole of the Daelaam, and rather Kerrigan would have been left lost as to just what she was supposed to do.

    I guess the destruction of the Moebius facility in the prologue was fine, but back then we still operated under the assumption Duran merely used terran facilities to help speed up production of the hybrid army, and in reality most hybrids have been seeded across many worlds.

    Artanis would have been unconvinced of Zeratul's prophecy and would have concentrated on getting Aiur back, and then immediately taking the fight to the swarm. Kerrigan herself would be forced to turn to terrans such as Jake Ramsey for help in order to know more about Amon, but Jake would warn her that this will never convince the Protoss, since they'd merely assume she warped his mind like what happened to Raszagal.

    Bottom line is for her at the end of HotS it's that she should be resigned to death and to lead the swarm on a suicide mission, since that's the only way to convince others she's not manipulating anyone this time. She understood that even if by some miracle Raynor could convince the WHOLE of the terran race otherwise, he'll never be able to convince the Protoss, and they're never going to stop until her head is on a pike.

  3. #3

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Seeing that there's no entry for LotV, I'm assuming that you found nothing wrong with it?

    I see that there are no Primal Zerg included here but that the plot device they serve remains intact by shifting it onto the Overmind. Personally, I'm not really a fan of comic-book-style resurrected dead characters (ie: dead should mean exactly that), especially of one that has died twice already. Might as well just introduce Ouros at that point (instead of the Overmind) and give her the powerup then and there, rather than obfuscate and being purposefully twisty with plot gimmickry. Besides, it's not much of a choice really since it's either the option of be a saviour or be a selfish dick - doesn't take much guessing which one will be chosen.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    What I think went wrong

    WOL:

    The overall story arc is Raynor facing his inner demons and coming to terms with his past before finally forgiving himself and moving on as a character. Chris Metzen said the original plan would have been for Raynor to make more mistakes over the course of the game before finally facing his past and redeeming himself. Blizzard also stated that the actual intent was that Raynor HAD given up on Kerrigan; when Valerian showed him what the artifact could do he realized that she could be rehabilitated and was given the choice between hoping again and wallowing in despair. Since he's sick of wallowing in despair, he ultimately decides to give Valerian's crazy scheme a try
    Huh? You've just explained the actual premise of WoL... and you think all of it is wrong? I don't get it.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  4. #4

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Seeing that there's no entry for LotV, I'm assuming that you found nothing wrong with it?

    I see that there are no Primal Zerg included here but that the plot device they serve remains intact by shifting it onto the Overmind. Personally, I'm not really a fan of comic-book-style resurrected dead characters (ie: dead should mean exactly that), especially of one that has died twice already. Might as well just introduce Ouros at that point (instead of the Overmind) and give her the powerup then and there, rather than obfuscate and being purposefully twisty with plot gimmickry. Besides, it's not much of a choice really since it's either the option of be a saviour or be a selfish dick - doesn't take much guessing which one will be chosen.



    Huh? You've just explained the actual premise of WoL... and you think all of it is wrong? I don't get it.
    Blizzard would probably use the excuse that Kerrigan didn't give Dehaka essence, so he left the swarm. This was something explained in HotS and everything.

    I'm not sure about introducing Ouros EARLY in HotS, maybe just have Kerrigan hear Tassadar's voice and everything, and get her to investigate. Only by the end of HotS, after Mengsk's death, THEN she'll discover Ouros. However, Ouros's plan to her will not be explained until LotV (or at least the prologue).

  5. #5

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Seeing that there's no entry for LotV, I'm assuming that you found nothing wrong with it?

    I see that there are no Primal Zerg included here but that the plot device they serve remains intact by shifting it onto the Overmind. Personally, I'm not really a fan of comic-book-style resurrected dead characters (ie: dead should mean exactly that), especially of one that has died twice already. Might as well just introduce Ouros at that point (instead of the Overmind) and give her the powerup then and there, rather than obfuscate and being purposefully twisty with plot gimmickry. Besides, it's not much of a choice really since it's either the option of be a saviour or be a selfish dick - doesn't take much guessing which one will be chosen.



    Huh? You've just explained the actual premise of WoL... and you think all of it is wrong? I don't get it.
    1.) I'm saying it wasn't conveyed well. A lot of people thought Raynor forgot his oath to Fenix; I think it should have been clearer that Raynor had given up on Kerrigan until the artifact raised the possibility that she could be rehabilitated. Metzan also stated that Raynor's mistakes in the missions would be more pronounced. purewasted's ideas a few years ago was more in line with what I thought. Raynor would make more pronounced mistakes in the process of achieving redemption

    I would have had it that when Tassadar ascended he met Ouros and learned what the fuck was going on. He returned to the Overmind's site with Ouros's help so that he could warn the rest of the galaxy. Kerrigan meeting with the Overmind is a leftover from when Rowan Seven proposed the idea back in 010, but I think Kerrigan coming face to face with the overmind (the one who changed her) would allow her to face some of her past. I really wanted to emphasize Kerrigan's inner conflict; she's aware that while she wasn't entirely responsible for what she did in Brood War, but at the same time she knows that the darkness of the Queen of Blades was in many ways the darkness within her own soul (i.e. if Amon's taint was involved, all it really did was suppress empathy and compassion, allowing her natural desires for revenge and aggression to become dominant.)

    Case in point Charles Whitman aka the guy who killed all those people from the clock tower back in the 60s. He had a tumor in the part of his brain that controlled fear and rage, so while it's safe to say Whitman ultimately did make the choice, the tumor meant he wasn't ENTIRELY responsible. Personally I felt it was a good way to have a compromise; Kerrigan can be redeemable while still being largely responsible for brood war.

    Part of the climax I thought for Legacy was that in Amon's home realm SOMEONE had to become a Xel'Naga. Ouros would have merged the essence of Tassadar (as well as his own essence) to Kerrigan. Kerrigan accepted because she was the most expandable. The Protoss will need a leader to guide them through the upheaval and adaptation (even if the Khala wasn't destroyed there would be changes); Artanis can be that leader. Kerrigan by contrast has hands stained with blood, and as such is the one who deserves to be condemned to a solitary existence. Becoming a Xel'Naga means abandoning everything you hold dear, and Kerrigan, as a mass murderer wanting to make amends who won't be trusted, is the best candidate

  6. #6

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    I'm saying it wasn't conveyed well. A lot of people thought Raynor forgot his oath to Fenix; I think it should have been clearer that Raynor had given up on Kerrigan until the artifact raised the possibility that she could be rehabilitated. Metzan also stated that Raynor's mistakes in the missions would be more pronounced. purewasted's ideas a few years ago was more in line with what I thought. Raynor would make more pronounced mistakes in the process of achieving redemption
    In full agreement with WoL not being conveyed well and that Raynor's supposed mistakes were perfunctory at best and non-existent at worst. I'm still mixed on the idea that the artifact be the thing that prompts Raynor's own self-redemption and Kerrigan's actual redemption though. It's largely because the "artifact" (or whatever name they give it - it's a pointless distinction either way) draws attention to itself as nothing but a blatant plot device. Because of it being arbitrarily very important yet ultimately empty, it sort of renders any character arc (in this case, Raynor being redeemed of his self-pity and survival guilt in WoL) that comes off as a direct consequence of this plot device hollow as well because it is contrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    I would have had it that when Tassadar ascended he met Ouros and learned what the fuck was going on. He returned to the Overmind's site with Ouros's help so that he could warn the rest of the galaxy. Kerrigan meeting with the Overmind is a leftover from when Rowan Seven proposed the idea back in 010, but I think Kerrigan coming face to face with the overmind (the one who changed her) would allow her to face some of her past.

    I really wanted to emphasize Kerrigan's inner conflict; she's aware that while she wasn't entirely responsible for what she did in Brood War, but at the same time she knows that the darkness of the Queen of Blades was in many ways the darkness within her own soul (i.e. if Amon's taint was involved, all it really did was suppress empathy and compassion, allowing her natural desires for revenge and aggression to become dominant.)
    Using the framework you provided above, I think it's better if the Overmind character was just left out altogether and just have Tassadar be the one she answers to. She did commit wrongs against him, so why not have her face someone that she has wronged? I think that'd make a more powerful scene instead, since that allows her to show her agency where she decides to do good when faced by someone who has every reason to think negatively toward her. And, because Tassadar is actually revealed to be Ouros in LotV, it could easily explain why "Tassadar" could power her up then and there. Better yet, one could just dispense with Ouros altogether and have the Tassamind be a Xel'Naga that empowers Kerrigan as it's agent.

    Like I've said in the past though, she can't turn good but still be a part of the Zerg. The Zerg are inherently myopic, selfish and are, well, monsters (I'm saying this about my favourite race, mind you!). This is at odds with any arc pertaining to Kerrigan being good again since this would mean undermining what the Zerg are about. If the Zerg were to be involved, it would have to be about Kerrigan coming to terms with the darkness within her soul by choosing to embrace/accepting it. Sure, it'd be pitch black and horrifying, but that's the Zerg.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    Part of the climax I thought for Legacy was that in Amon's home realm SOMEONE had to become a Xel'Naga. Ouros would have merged the essence of Tassadar (as well as his own essence) to Kerrigan.
    In terms of plot progression, this works better solely because a Protoss is involved. Partly why the LotV rubs (especially the epilogue) is that the Protoss are ultimately made a third wheel in their very own story since they are non-essential to the formation of new Xel'Naga, if not being UNideal candidates at all. As to the someone having to become a Xel'Naga, I think revealing that Tassadar and the Overmind became a Xel'Naga would be a more satisfactory plot twist and that including Kerrigan as a Terran into that mix to make a different type of Xel'Naga would be more interesting than what we got with Ascended Kerrigan being Xel'Naga only because Blizz just marked her as being as special.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    Becoming a Xel'Naga means abandoning everything you hold dear, and Kerrigan, as a mass murderer wanting to make amends who won't be trusted, is the best candidate
    But she's already abandoned everything by being the QoB again in Sc2 so she's actually gaining a lot of things/rewarded by becoming a Xel'Naga, one of which is to appear human again to Raynor should she wish and space magic to fix whatever she wants. It's a terribly mixed message either way.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  7. #7

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    Part of the climax I thought for Legacy was that in Amon's home realm SOMEONE had to become a Xel'Naga. Ouros would have merged the essence of Tassadar (as well as his own essence) to Kerrigan. Kerrigan accepted because she was the most expandable. The Protoss will need a leader to guide them through the upheaval and adaptation (even if the Khala wasn't destroyed there would be changes); Artanis can be that leader. Kerrigan by contrast has hands stained with blood, and as such is the one who deserves to be condemned to a solitary existence. Becoming a Xel'Naga means abandoning everything you hold dear, and Kerrigan, as a mass murderer wanting to make amends who won't be trusted, is the best candidate
    No one had to be a Xel'Naga at all, DarthYam. It was NEVER stated that Amon could only be killed by another Xel'Naga. After all, we've known since SC1 that the Zerg killed a lot of the Xel'Naga at Zerus, and the Overmind assimilated plenty of them.

    Granted, many fans had speculated that it's entirely possible Amon had powers that other Xel'Naga didn't, but this was never explained in LotV. We don't really know if the other Xel'Naga could tap into the power of the Void and merely chose not to while Amon did, or Amon was something more unique.

    The problem here was that at the end of the 1st epilogue mission, Kerrigan had felt there was NO possible way she could survive this confrontation, but because everyone else wanted justice done for her crimes, her death was the only way to go. This is something that many fans had discussed long before Blizzard gave any info on LotV, that Kerrigan felt that even if by some miracle she could survive the war against Amon, the Protoss would just kill her anyway.

    As for becoming Xel'Naga and abandoning everything, Kerrigan already stated just that at the end of HotS, yet at the end of LotV, she still got Raynor back. I didn't mind that, but this would be against the abandoning everything concept.

    Furthermore, after the essence transfer, Ouros DID say that the Infinite Cycle has now ended. It's possible that he was hoping that Kerrigan would start a new form of the cycle of something. Besides, Kerrigan herself DID tell Amon that she cared nothing for the Xel'Naga cycle.

    Of course, if people looked hard into that, it already opened the door for her to become the villain yet again. Basically from what I got out of Amon is that he wanted the powers of the Xel'Naga, but didn't want the responsibility the Xel'Naga had of the cycle and everything. The fact that Amon had followers proved that he wasn't the ONLY Xel'Naga who resented this responsibility. Thus if Kerrigan refused to uphold the Xel'Naga cycle with the world seeding and everything, people would immediately ask, "Then how would you be any different than Amon?"

  8. #8

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    In terms of plot progression, this works better solely because a Protoss is involved. Partly why the LotV rubs (especially the epilogue) is that the Protoss are ultimately made a third wheel in their very own story since they are non-essential to the formation of new Xel'Naga, if not being UNideal candidates at all. As to the someone having to become a Xel'Naga, I think revealing that Tassadar and the Overmind became a Xel'Naga would be a more satisfactory plot twist and that including Kerrigan as a Terran into that mix to make a different type of Xel'Naga would be more interesting than what we got with Ascended Kerrigan being Xel'Naga only because Blizz just marked her as being as special.
    You don't need the ascension AT ALL. Being the key to victory does NOT have to involve any ascending to godhood or any of that fantasy. It could merely mean heroic sacrifice.

    For example, long before any info on LotV was out, many had speculated that Zeratul could have uncovered ancient weapon left by the Xel'Naga after they discovered Amon's plans. The Xel'Naga artifact that deinfested Kerrigan at the end of WoL was meant to be that weapon's activation key, which would finally kill him once and for all.

    However, Amon got to them first, denying them usage of the weapon, so the Xel'Naga were forced to split the Activation Key into several pieces (hence why we had to go for the artifact hunt several times over in WoL) in order to hide it from Amon. When Zeratul discovered that ancient Xel'Naga weapon, he saw that it had been offline for way too long, and even if the Activation Key was recovered, needed a nudge of psionic energy in order get it going again. The problem was that a "nudge" by Xel'Naga standards is considered astronomical by terran, Zerg, and Protoss standards, and even when she was infested, Kerrigan's psionic levels were too low to provide the "nudge" necessary.

    THAT would then explain why Zeratul told her about Zerus in HotS and the primal transformation. Zeratul gambled that this would finally provide the psionic energies necessary to bring the ancient Xel'Naga weapon online to kill Amon. Duran used her energies to revive his master, it's only fitting that her energies would be used to kill him.

    So you see Turalyon, if things had worked out like that, there never would have been a need for ascension. All that we needed was a heroic sacrifice.

  9. #9

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    You don't need the ascension AT ALL. Being the key to victory does NOT have to involve any ascending to godhood or any of that fantasy. It could merely mean heroic sacrifice.
    I have no idea how this relates to any part of my reply you quoted.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  10. #10

    Default Re: How to Rework Starcraft II

    Overall I think there needs to be an overall storyline that runs through each of the three games. Amon's hybrids are the big bads, as is Amon himself. First, what Amon should have been needs to be established. James

    Amon: I honestly liked some of what was revealed in his backstory. According to the Polygon article it was "It’s very much a Lucifer story on some level," Waugh says of Amon. "It’s a character that had the opportunity to become a great being, and then realized he didn’t like that; at the end of the day, he was part of this ancient, infinite cycle. He realizes that that’s not what he wants, he wants to shatter that cycle. He wants to break everything. He feels lied to. In his mind, he’s the hero of his own story." Waugh also said that "Where Artanis kind of takes on the burden and realizes that there is a lot of flaws in what is the world, that there's a way to work with them and improve them, Amon decides to shatter it all."

    You can get mileage outa that. Maybe he discovered he didn't want the responsibility being a god entailed, and when he couldn't back out he felt like he had been cheated. That makes him sorta like brood war Kerrigan in that he tries to destroy the board to escape being a pawn in a game he didn't want to play. It also portrays a converse between Kerrigan and Artanis vs Amon. They were willing to step up to the plate and do the hard things; Amon wasn't and just wanted to smash the cycle and make a perfect world.

    So the fact remains. How should Amon have been executed in the trilogy?

Similar Threads

  1. Original Starcraft Terran campaign ported over to Starcraft 2
    By sulik in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 02-01-2013, 01:41 PM
  2. Theorycrafting: Void Ray rework.
    By Sheliek in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 12-05-2012, 05:18 PM
  3. Rework the Viking
    By Sietsh-Tenk in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-02-2010, 11:35 AM
  4. Zerg Needs Major Rework
    By sysrpl in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 118
    Last Post: 03-13-2010, 11:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •