Nissa finally caves in.

[Nissa]

So I saw your Legacy of the Void. Personal things have kept me occupied and unable to watch a playthrough of this game, both from time and stress. That, and a complete sense of dread from the little I did see, and all the stuff I heard.

...All I behold is an abomination.

I can't make it through this game. The dialogue is atrocious. It's all melodramatic tripe that states directly instead of showing. People claim this is the best of the three SC2 games, but honestly, to me it's a twin of HotS, only with added Dehaka-like monologues and even more DBZ cutscenes. Rohana is the new Dehaka, and Fenix is the new Stukov. Karax is the cheap analogue of Abathur. Emotional drama stands instead of interesting plot.

Honestly, I made it through multiple viewings of WoL and HotS, but I can't make myself finish this. I made it about to the point where the robots decide they want in. After that, I just couldn't go any farther.

I know, I know, this is late. But since we all hang out here for a franchise that has seen better days, and not to mention have been around since SC1 or came here after the long pause. If we aren't here to discuss inane matters of a game franchise, what's the forum for? Here's some stuff I wanted to rant about.

- I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The armor for the Protoss is bulky, impractical, and ugly. Selendis' helmet pisses me off because the second that thing gets hit and jerks around, those spiky things around her eyes are going to stab her in the face.

- Hate all Protoss voices. As much as people like John de Lancie, his voice was only okay, in my opinion. I have no complaints on his performance, but the sound editing they did on his voice only rendered up an okay alien tone -- I'm complaining about the sound design, not de Lancie himself. In SC1, each Protoss voice felt distinct and well characterized to the person talking. Here, all the voices blend together. Fenix's actor reminded me of Aldaris at times.

- Uh....why do all the Protoss have lens flare eyes?

- This is how the story is going to begin? No catching up with the Protoss and seeing their status? No proper introduction where we actually see them planning and weighing the pros and cons of retaking Aiur? Heck, no status update on who exactly holds Aiur until Amon showed up?

- Oh wait, so the plot's just going to reveal right away that the Khala is bad? No explanation of the mechanics of this? It really undercuts the tension of this event when it's just suddenly introduced as a plot point, with no build-up at all. We don't even get to see any modern Judicator dealing with the situation. The only person who struggles with this choice, Rohana, is an ancient woman who's been in stasis for years. Thus, we don't get to see the effects of this loss on modern Protoss society. We're just simply told that the Khala is important to some people, but that they can't have it.

Since we never knew the difference between the Khala and ordinary telepathy in the first place, we can't understand the loss of the Khala. Especially since it doesn't appear to make any sort of gameplay difference. A better choice would have been to allow the player to decide when/if any nerve cords are severed, and this changes the nature of the plot. Or, y'know, just not half of Protoss culture out the window.

- The Protoss sound like DS9 Klingons. "Allow us to join you in battle!", "May the Khala guide our blades!" What the frick is the Khala that it can guide anything?

- Karax just introduced himself, and Zeratul immediately calls him a friend?

- The Protoss don't seem freaked out enough that they're fighting their own kind. I mean, you go into battle with a comrade, and they're suddenly spouting hateful things and trying to kill you? That's not something to be taken in stride.

- "Artanis, you must hold on. We are coming for you." how does Zeratul know that what happened to Artie won't happen to him? They figure out pretty quick that the Khala is to blame. How undramatic.

- Why does Raynor say "Like old times" in the Korhal missions? Raynor is never fighting with Artanis. Don't give me that "Artanis is the executor" bullcrap. Besides that being a retcon, I'm pretty sure there's some conflicting opinions on that, anyway. No matter the case, it's silly to point out "old times" when the players have never seen such times.

- Interfering in Terran matters seems weird. What right do they have? How many humans are okay with this? The plot totally annihilates any delicious Toss-Terran tension from SC1. While Valerian might be able to accept their help, the people that follow him didn't go with him on his adventures with Raynor's Raiders; they didn't have the chance to get an alternate opinion on the 'Toss. I'll forgive this if later games have people critize accepting help from a hostile race, but realistically there's got to be important people who don't trust the Protoss.

- The Moebius Corp seems from nowhere. They were a scientific group in WoL, and now they have a military? According to Valerian's wiki page, "....as even Raynor noted that when the zerg assaulted Augustgrad, the damage was miniscule compared to Moebius's attack." Uh...uh...why? To make Kerrigan's actions in HotS look better by comparison?

- The music is often overwhelming in volume and distracting. Sweeping musical scores aren't going to make me feel anything when the plot is stupid.

- This game is weird. The first two games were centered around smaller groups of independent people with the potential to choose a wide variety of options. This one is based on the leader of a large group of folk who must make decisions based on the greater good. That's a huge shift. Just an observation.

- Really, I was not interested in seeing Rohana's butt.

- "Your words are little more than poison" - Eowyn, the Two Towers. I mean, Artanis, Legacy of the Void.

- Why does Amon keep talking about salvation without saying what this supposed salvation is supposed to be? Heck, why does Artanis speak of salvation without saying what this version of salvation is supposed to be?

- These mofos shake their shoulders a lot when they talk. Karax sure likes flapping his arms. "I just flew in from Aiur, and boy are my arms tired!"

- So, Artanis says, "We are not very different" to Swann? The Protoss are different. Pretty darned different, at that. Besides, similarity =/= peace. That, and the line delivery was melodramatic like an after-school special.

- Okay, so Shakuras was under attack when the rest of the Protoss were trying to take back Aiur, huh? Sounds dramatic. Maybe I'd like to have seen that. Huh, maybe it would have been a good idea to let the player choose between staying at Shakuras and trying to retake Aiur.

- Does no one else think that the destruction of Shakuras was excessive and quick? They give up on the planet so easily, when it's the home of the Dark Templar, the refuge for the Khalai, and the bearer of a temple much like the one that was destroyed on Aiur. That's not going to be an easy loss to bear, especially not now that they've lost so much already.

And did I miss it, or did they say where the bulk of Protoss civilians are staying at this point? If the Khalai had to flee to Shakuras because it's their last option, they clearly had no other planet to flee to. Are the Protoss just living in spaceships for the time being?

- Um, why are they using Rohana to bring back Protoss culture strife when keeping Judicator around is a far more interesting, and up-to-date, a conflict?

- Why does Rohanna get on Artanis' case about dealing with DTs and then immediately apologize for it? Why bother bringing it up if she isn't going to defend her position?

- "It is not my place to question the order of a Judicator" - "Fenix"

COMPLETE BULLCRAP. Fenix would never say something like this. Fenix was always a loyal Templar -- that is, loyal to the Templar. In the same way a soldier is more loyal to the military than to the government. Fenix's trust in Tassadar was so absolute that he turned to Tassadar immediately upon Tassadar's rebellious arrival on Aiur. Fenix, while to a degree respectful of the chain of command, immediately took action when he sensed that the Conclave was wrong. He's not a blind follower.

- Fenix is the Stukov of this game: a beloved character coming back only to shame his memory and force the plot to go along.

- If the hybrids created other races, why are the Protoss the Firstborn? Blizz needs to be careful about their retcons.

- The problem with this story is the blending of lines, the eradification of distinction. The Khala is gone, the human-Protoss conflict is nonexistent, DT/Khalai political strife is dropped down to a few ineffective statements, Protoss-Zerg conflict is ignored, Protoss weakness is offset by random technology from stupid places, and Kerrigan's past has almost zero impact on the plot. All the stuff that created a beautiful, complex story is now whitewashed or gone. To make it worse, they replace it with some boring robot crap. I don't care about the purifiers, and I never will.

That's enough ranting. I had to get that off my chest. Maybe someday I can finish watching a playthrough of this, but for now, SC2 just needs to commit honorable seppuku.

[Drake Clawfang]

You lost me at "Rohana is the new Dehaka and Karax is the new Abathur."

[Nissa]

Well, honestly, they are. Rohana says pointless things that don't matter, and Karax is a constructor, and one of the lone males in a story full of chicks. It's essentially the same as HotS.

[Gradius]

Honestly, I made it through multiple viewings of WoL and HotS, but I can't make myself finish this. I made it about to the point where the robots decide they want in. After that, I just couldn't go any farther.

LoTV is the best installment in the trilogy. I can't fathom how you can get through the monkey hurlage that was WoL or HoTS, yet aren't able to watch a story that had 10x the thought put into it.

I can't make it through this game. The dialogue is atrocious. It's all melodramatic tripe that states directly instead of showing. People claim this is the best of the three SC2 games, but honestly, to me it's a twin of HotS, only with added Dehaka-like monologues and even more DBZ cutscenes. Rohana is the new Dehaka, and Fenix is the new Stukov. Karax is the cheap analogue of Abathur. Emotional drama stands instead of interesting plot.

DBZ cutscenes actually belong in the protoss campaign; they're the psionic master race. What did you think Tassadar channeling a giant spirit bomb to kill the Overmind in the first game was? Karax and Abathur are different characters, and Karax is way better than Stetmann.

- Uh....why do all the Protoss have lens flare eyes?

They've had glowing eyes since SC1. Lens flare looks cooler.

- This is how the story is going to begin? No catching up with the Protoss and seeing their status? No proper introduction where we actually see them planning and weighing the pros and cons of retaking Aiur? Heck, no status update on who exactly holds Aiur until Amon showed up?

All saved for short stories and not relevant to the overarching plot.

- Oh wait, so the plot's just going to reveal right away that the Khala is bad? No explanation of the mechanics of this? It really undercuts the tension of this event when it's just suddenly introduced as a plot point, with no build-up at all. We don't even get to see any modern Judicator dealing with the situation. The only person who struggles with this choice, Rohana, is an ancient woman who's been in stasis for years. Thus, we don't get to see the effects of this loss on modern Protoss society. We're just simply told that the Khala is important to some people, but that they can't have it.

1) Amon helped create the Khala, and so he corrupted it. That was hard.
2) Why do you keep bringing up Judicator? They were pretty much destroyed in SC1 and their government was overthrown. They're gone. Obsolete. They don't belong in this game.

Since we never knew the difference between the Khala and ordinary telepathy in the first place, we can't understand the loss of the Khala.

Non-sequitur.

Especially since it doesn't appear to make any sort of gameplay difference. A better choice would have been to allow the player to decide when/if any nerve cords are severed, and this changes the nature of the plot. Or, y'know, just not half of Protoss culture out the window.

The narration of the intro cinematic makes the importance of the Khala pretty clear, and I'm actually glad they didn't belabor the point any further.

- The Protoss sound like DS9 Klingons. "Allow us to join you in battle!", "May the Khala guide our blades!" What the frick is the Khala that it can guide anything?

It's a philosophical system.

- Karax just introduced himself, and Zeratul immediately calls him a friend?

I don't get it. Did you even play the game? Looks like all your gripes are a failure to understand or recall basic plot points.

[Nissa]

LoTV is the best installment in the trilogy. I can't fathom how you can get through the monkey hurlage that was WoL or HoTS, yet aren't able to watch a story that had 10x the thought put into it.

I don't know why you call this "best." But I also don't know why I find it less tolerable. Perhaps it has something to do with it eliminating the Khala and the drama that entails. Wait, it may have more to do with the dialogue. It's all boring, stilted language, where all but one character (Alarak) speak in movie trailer/after school special quotes. In the previous games, they at least had more rednecks, Abathur's stuff, and Mira han. That is, people who don't talk like artificial life forms written by high schoolers.

DBZ cutscenes actually belong in the protoss campaign; they're the psionic master race. What did you think Tassadar channeling a giant spirit bomb to kill the Overmind in the first game was? Karax and Abathur are different characters, and Karax is way better than Stetmann.

I meant DBZ in art style. They're so dramatic and over the top, and yet I feel nothing. I suppose whether or not it fits is arguable, but I'd be okay with it if any of the cutscenes provoked an emotion in me besides embarrasment at the poor dialogue.

Ah, Karax serves the same plot function as Abathur -- he's a constructor guy that provides upgrades. He's not the same as Abathur, mainly because he's boring. Uh....hm, yeah, I guess Karax is better than Stetmann. He's at least more than a cliche.

They've had glowing eyes since SC1. Lens flare looks cooler.

HAHAHAHA! ...No. The lens flares look like cheap pointer lasers sticking out of their eyes. They don't even have eyeballs. Glowy eyes are purty.

All saved for short stories and not relevant to the overarching plot.

Absolutely not. Additional reading should not be required to enjoy a game's story. I'm not asking for a forty minute recap, I'm just asking for a cutscene that at least touches on the Protoss' issues from BW to now, as well as introducing our characters. We learned nothing about general Protoss society in Wol or HotS. We saw Zeratul run around, Selendis said hi, and some Protoss scientists were killed. We don't know anything about the political/survival situation of the race.

Think about the introduction we get, say, at the beginning of all SC1 mission sets. Terran's first missions of course open with a tutorial and intro to Raynor. The first Zerg mission is the Overmind's classic monologue. The first Protoss mission has Aldaris immediately clarify the Protoss perspective on past events. The second Protoss missions start with a conversation between Zeratul and Aldaris that sends them off to Shakuras. DuGalle briefs you at the beginning of the second Terran missions. And finally, the last Zerg missions begin with Kerrigan explaining why she's separated her cerebrate from the swarm. Heck, WoL and HotS even spent a few minutes building up the imminent action.

In short, I'm not asking for much, just a couple minutes spent re-introducing us to a race we haven't heard from in eighteen years.

1) Amon helped create the Khala, and so he corrupted it. That was hard.
2) Why do you keep bringing up Judicator? They were pretty much destroyed in SC1 and their government was overthrown. They're gone. Obsolete. They don't belong in this game.

Incorrect. The Judicator haven't ceased to exist. They're still a caste.

1) Just because their society on Aiur is gone doesn't mean they still won't attempt to hold on to some traditions.
2) the Khalai caste still exists and so do the Templar, primarily as functions of Protoss society. Judicator probably also have some sort of psionic power unique to their caste.
3) Judicator =/= the Conclave. Castes are family based, so Judicator are born. They are not automatically equipped to serve in the Conclave, and there are probably a number of non-Conclave roles available for them.
4) Khala is the light side of the Protoss, and DT stuff the dark. BW made that clear, add a retcon to the list.
5) No Khala? No drama between Khalai and DT. So boring.

Non-sequitur.

Why? It makes sense. We never knew what the Khala was or what made it special, because a communal link seems an obvious option for regular psychics. Because the Khala is never clarified, we can't tell what makes the Khala's communal link so special.

The narration of the intro cinematic makes the importance of the Khala pretty clear, and I'm actually glad they didn't belabor the point any further.

I argue that it does not. We don't know what the Khala is, only what Blizzard claimed it did. Because of all the massive retcons, we don't know if it's a philosophy, a genetic trait, a magical power gotten from touching magic crystals, or what. It supposedly united the races, but since clearly the DT weren't united, this claim is weakened.

It's a philosophical system.

If we were talking SC1, I wouldn't argue with you. The retcons, man, the retcons! In any case, if the Khala is a philosophical system, it's an idea, not a physical thing that's capable of moving a Templar's blades. My main point there was just to say that the Templar sound like doofuses. Seriously, have you seen DS9? Most of the Klingons on that show are awful stereotypes.

I don't get it. Did you even play the game? Looks like all your gripes are a failure to understand or recall basic plot points.

There's nothing to understand. There's no depth. It's just melodramatic dialogue, shallow characters, and poor plot choices.

Granted, nothing I've said is about the gameplay. If you enjoy playing this game, don't let me change your mind. If you have fun playing it, that's the point. It's just that my main love for this game was based on plot, and if the plot is artificial and calculated to remove all potential drama, then I've effectively lost the will to care.

[Drake Clawfang]

Making an effort to navigate the absurdity...

- I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The armor for the Protoss is bulky, impractical, and ugly.

If that's your opinion, that's fine, it's opinion and that's a fine one to hold. However, that's hardly something to blame SC2 for.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/File...t_SC1_Art1.jpg

That's the SC1 Zealot. Here's a SC2 Zealot.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/File...LotV_Rend1.jpg

If anything, they toned it back.

In SC1, each Protoss voice felt distinct and well characterized to the person talking. Here, all the voices blend together. Fenix's actor reminded me of Aldaris at times.

That is not opinion - it's simply wrong. You play me a voice clip even now and I can tell you which Protoss character it is easily.

- Oh wait, so the plot's just going to reveal right away that the Khala is bad? No explanation of the mechanics of this?

What mechanics?

We don't even get to see any modern Judicator dealing with the situation.

Contrary to your previous reply - it has previously been strongly indicated the Judicators were wiped out with the fall of Aiur - arbiters were abandoned, the Conclave is dead, and Aldaris and his Khalai followers were killed. There is no reason to believe there are still Judicators in Protoss society, and if there once were they no longer hold such a title.

Now, expanded world lore *has* said that a few Judicators were still around after Brood War, and the Caste was dissolved following the establishment of the Hierarchy, but you pointedly ignore the novels and short stories and demand the game plots do the same, so as far as you should be concerned, they still don't exist anymore.

The only person who struggles with this choice, Rohana, is an ancient woman who's been in stasis for years. Thus, we don't get to see the effects of this loss on modern Protoss society.

Because Rohanna is enough. We also see a bit of Karax and Artanis lamenting being cut off, but it isn't hammered in.

Since we never knew the difference between the Khala and ordinary telepathy in the first place

Speak for yourself.

LotV and novels make the difference clear. The Khala is a deeper form of telepathy, where the Protoss directly sense emotions and thoughts, rather than just talk in each other's heads. It's like the Vulcan mind meld.

- The Protoss sound like DS9 Klingons. "Allow us to join you in battle!"

"En Taro Adun, there is no time to waste! We must join our brethren in battle!"

- SC1 Zealot.

I hate to keep hitting this note in these discussions, but if people are going to continue to hate things in SC2 that have been present since SC1 and act like it's SC2's fault, I'm going to continue to remind them otherwise.

"May the Khala guide our blades!" What the frick is the Khala that it can guide anything?

It's a blessing or a battle cry, it doesn't have to mean literal sense. If you demand it does, I have more SC1 Protoss quotes to bring up. It's just how their culture works.

- Karax just introduced himself, and Zeratul immediately calls him a friend?

"Hi Zeratul, I'm a prominent engineer, here to help you establish a base and find our leader."
"That does not make us friends."
"Yeesh, what a dick, no wonder you always travel alone."

- "Artanis, you must hold on. We are coming for you." how does Zeratul know that what happened to Artie won't happen to him? They figure out pretty quick that the Khala is to blame. How undramatic.

Let's see... Selendis senses a disturbance in the Khala, but Zeratul senses nothing, then the Khalai go insane while the Nerazim are unaffected. Do the math.

- Why does Raynor say "Like old times" in the Korhal missions? Raynor is never fighting with Artanis. Don't give me that "Artanis is the executor" bullcrap. Besides that being a retcon, I'm pretty sure there's some conflicting opinions on that, anyway. No matter the case, it's silly to point out "old times" when the players have never seen such times.

Once again, ignoring the expanded world building, but at least you acknowledge it exists before you decide to ignore it anyway. You're still wrong, but it's an improvement.

- Interfering in Terran matters seems weird. What right do they have? How many humans are okay with this?

"Raynor, it seems the throne world is under assault and your capital city is about to be crushed by a space station, killing countless innocents."
"Pretty much. We're stretched tight trying to defend everything and can't stop the fall."
"Well, you're busy then, I guess. I'll come back later."

It's not like he went to some random Dominion world Raynor was leading a rebellion on and took up arms to kill the soldiers, it was the capital of the Terran civilization, home to billions of people, under attack by servants of Amon and Narud.
Artanis would have been the biggest douche in the universe if he didn't help them, and it perplexes me how you can question this.

These mofos shake their shoulders a lot when they talk. Karax sure likes flapping his arms. "I just flew in from Aiur, and boy are my arms tired!"

TV Tropes calls it a Head Bob. The Protoss lack mouths, one of the most expression parts of the human face, so the developers use body language. It's common in many works of media including life-action film if the character is masked. The Protoss just standing there staring as they talk would be weird.

- Okay, so Shakuras was under attack when the rest of the Protoss were trying to take back Aiur, huh? Sounds dramatic. Maybe I'd like to have seen that. Huh, maybe it would have been a good idea to let the player choose between staying at Shakuras and trying to retake Aiur.

The attack happened after Amon's corruption of the Khala; when Shakuras was invaded, the Khalai on Aiur were busy trying to power up the Spear of Adun to flee Aiur. You the player are given the choice to immediately haul ass to Shakuras to make sure it's okay. It's not like they left their people in the middle of an zerg invasion to take care of other business. They're not the Conclave!

- Does no one else think that the destruction of Shakuras was excessive and quick? They give up on the planet so easily, when it's the home of the Dark Templar, the refuge for the Khalai, and the bearer of a temple much like the one that was destroyed on Aiur. That's not going to be an easy loss to bear, especially not now that they've lost so much already.

I will admit, I'd have liked a third mission on Shakuras between the two we got to spend more time on the planet before we nuked it. However, it's understandable while they resorted to it. Their fleet is greatly lessened without the Golden Armada, the attack caught them by surprise, their cities are overrun, and there's Hybrids in addition to the zerg. They may have tried to hold them off, but there was no way they could have held Shakuras.

And did I miss it, or did they say where the bulk of Protoss civilians are staying at this point?

Yes, you missed it. They're living on the Spear of Adun; notice you see Protoss in civilian attire walking around, and Karax makes a point that the solar core also provides the nourishment they'd usually need from the sun.

- Um, why are they using Rohana to bring back Protoss culture strife when keeping Judicator around is a far more interesting, and up-to-date, a conflict?

Another opinion. Would you have just felt better if they called Rohana a Judicator, because you seem really hung up on wanting to see a Judicator in the game when they're all dead.

- Why does Rohanna get on Artanis' case about dealing with DTs and then immediately apologize for it? Why bother bringing it up if she isn't going to defend her position?

She sees them as heretics but is merely an adviser, not the leader. What Artie says goes, but she's going to voice her disagreements with it anyway.

- Fenix is the Stukov of this game: a beloved character coming back only to shame his memory and force the plot to go along.

A shallow comparison. Stukov went through unspeakable trauma and horror between games that drastically shifted his outlook on things. Fenix is a robot copy of the original Fenix that develops in a different direction, and thematically represents the struggle of the Protoss in this game between clinging to past glories or moving on to a new future.

- If the hybrids created other races, why are the Protoss the Firstborn? Blizz needs to be careful about their retcons.

One - the Hybrids didn't create shit, it was the Xel'naga.

Two - the Protoss were still the first creations, they just made more later.

- The problem with this story is the blending of lines, the eradification of distinction.

The entire focus of the story is the distinct protoss tribes - the Khalai, Nerazim, Purifiers, and Tal'darim, each represented by an important character that was/is a leader of that tribe, and Artanis is trying to keep them all united as he personally comes to understand, even appreciate, their differences and similarities. They are all separate cultures and tribes, but they are all also Protoss.

Frankly most of your complaints stem from not understanding the story because you either didn't care to try to, or the story and themes were too subtle for you to see.

[Turalyon]

People claim this is the best of the three SC2 games, but honestly, to me it's a twin of HotS, only with added Dehaka-like monologues and even more DBZ cutscenes.

The situation is kinda like the reaction to SW: Episode III. Some see it at as an improvement over what came before/the best of the current iteration and that it's signficant, whilst others say say that there's no significant distinction (crap that is improved or the "best" of it still doesn't make it not crap). I don't fall into either camp nor stay there for very long largely because I'm so inured by the experience that I can only be apathetic to it all. Likewise with Sc2, I can't even muster enough optimism say vehemently that LotV is better nor enough pessimism to vehemently say it's all just still crap anymore.

[Sheliek]

Biggest nitpick of all right now: one of the arbiter quotes is the pilot saying, "We judicators are eternally grateful that our Hierarch has allowed us to serve Aiur once more. And yet, you Templar are still wary of our actions. Our desire to fight for our homeworld is equal to any other."

Everyone who noticed unit quotes loved the dark archon mentioning Ulrezaj still being alive, and I can see how, lore-wise, that's much more tantalizing than this.

[Sheliek]

Biggest nitpick of all right now: one of the arbiter quotes is the pilot saying, "We judicators are eternally grateful that our Hierarch has allowed us to serve Aiur once more. And yet, you Templar are still wary of our actions. Our desire to fight for our homeworld is equal to any other."

Everyone who noticed unit quotes loved the dark archon mentioning Ulrezaj still being alive, and I can see how, lore-wise, that's much more tantalizing than this.

Everything else was said better by Gradius and Drake than I can be bothered to do.

[Nolanstar]

Also some of the protoss in "reclamation" are Judicators.