Random Thoughts Thread

[Mislagnissa]

You’re drawing weird conclusions based on fanon. Overlords can reassert control of feral troops. There is no proof the hive is “working together” when they’re feral, as opposed to merely not killing each other. There is no proof there’s a mini Overmind just because they don’t kill each other. There is no proof they’re all close enough to each other to all kill themselves off. There’s also no proof there’s not some biological directive for them to not kill anything from their hive or that they don’t naturally revert to forming packs when feral.

If you’re going to claim the only option is that they have to kill each other then you’ve got a lot of evidence to go hunt down.

That is not what you said before.

The feral hive clusters are likely the work of feral overlords teaming up and trying to keep some semblance of order. Similar to the overlord short story.

Yep. Pretty much what I just said.

Let me see if I understand your revised explanation correctly. So what you are saying is that a feral hive cluster is an ecosystem full of dangerous wildlife trapped in a constant struggle to survive? Like Zerus before the Zerg formed the Overmind? Zerg are finding their niches and fighting to survive? They are not actually teaming up? They are still a chaotic mess of competing predators? Is that what you are saying? If you are, I believe that much more easily than a bunch of genetically engineered idiot savants functioning with any degree of competence outside of the field for which they were engineered.

Even so, that does not exclude new Overminds forming as a result. The xel'naga created the Overmind by genetically modifying the genomes of all Zerg on Zerus simultaneously to structure their minds into a single mind. Any group of feral Zerg that survives long enough should naturally structure their minds the exact same way. While I am loathe to rely on SC2's (il)logic, Raynor's scientist buddy stated that brain bug genes are still present in the Zerg and it's a miracle they have not been reactivated. I cannot think of a reason why the Zerg would not reflexively do so.

[Nolanstar]

That is not what you said before.




Let me see if I understand your revised explanation correctly. So what you are saying is that a feral hive cluster is an ecosystem full of dangerous wildlife trapped in a constant struggle to survive? Like Zerus before the Zerg formed the Overmind? Zerg are finding their niches and fighting to survive? They are not actually teaming up? They are still a chaotic mess of competing predators? Is that what you are saying? If you are, I believe that much more easily than a bunch of genetically engineered idiot savants functioning with any degree of competence outside of the field for which they were engineered.

Even so, that does not exclude new Overminds forming as a result. The xel'naga created the Overmind by genetically modifying the genomes of all Zerg on Zerus simultaneously to structure their minds into a single mind. Any group of feral Zerg that survives long enough should naturally structure their minds the exact same way. While I am loathe to rely on SC2's (il)logic, Raynor's scientist buddy stated that brain bug genes are still present in the Zerg and it's a miracle they have not been reactivated. I cannot think of a reason why the Zerg would not reflexively do so.

Genetic suppression against those genes activating by Type-B cells as insurance on the side of the QoB and other queens?

[Gradius]

That is not what you said before.

Let me see if I understand your revised explanation correctly. So what you are saying is that a feral hive cluster is an ecosystem full of dangerous wildlife trapped in a constant struggle to survive? Like Zerus before the Zerg formed the Overmind? Zerg are finding their niches and fighting to survive? They are not actually teaming up? They are still a chaotic mess of competing predators? Is that what you are saying? If you are, I believe that much more easily than a bunch of genetically engineered idiot savants functioning with any degree of competence outside of the field for which they were engineered.

There is... no revised explanation. I'm trying to draw a distinction here between working together and coordinating their movements in a hive like they did under a controller (which is what you're talking about, with your new Overminds hypothesis), versus Overlords and/or the hive teaming up to fight a greater threat like normal allies. There is no proof the former happens, whereas the latter is perfectly plausible. It's also plausible they're genetically engineered not to hurt their own hive, and it's also plausible that zerg normally tear each others' throats out as standard procedure (this happens in a comic with zerg under Kerrigan's control in fact, and it produces a stronger zergling).

Point is, if you're the one saying there's a retcon/plothole, the burden of proof is on you to find incontrovertible evidence from the game to support that, instead of reverting to fanon and how you think it should work. If there's wiggle room because the game says almost nothing about the subject, then you're going to have a hard time with that.

Even so, that does not exclude new Overminds forming as a result.

When have we seen these new Overminds forming? I'm pretty sure that's not how it works in any of the media. They're either under a controller, or go feral. You need more evidence for this hypothesis.

The xel'naga created the Overmind by genetically modifying the genomes of all Zerg on Zerus simultaneously to structure their minds into a single mind.

It doesn't actually say that though. It says "the Xel’Naga structured the collective sentience of the Zerg into a unified, amalgamated ‘Overmind’" which for all we know could have been a purely psionic act instead of genetic.

Any group of feral Zerg that survives long enough should naturally structure their minds the exact same way. While I am loathe to rely on SC2's (il)logic, Raynor's scientist buddy stated that brain bug genes are still present in the Zerg and it's a miracle they have not been reactivated. I cannot think of a reason why the Zerg would not reflexively do so.

No he doesn't. The exact quote is "I isolated the strain from which the zerg Overmind was derived. Not enough to clone the Overmind, but I could follow this strand to gain insight into how it controlled the zerg."

Here's a reason why they wouldn't do it: because the game says they go feral instead. That's what happens when they get severed from their chain of command.

[Mislagnissa]

Gradius, the games and books never sugest that feral zerg work together beyond the pack level. While the specifics vary between stories, they agree that ferals are not cohesive and present just as much a danger to themselves.

I could not believe that feral hives could last for long periods of time because they were no longer cohesive, unless they somehow managed to replicate stable pre-overmind conditions.

Lastly, the canon is effing stupid! You said so yourself on numerous occasions. Making the Zerg naturally congregate into group minds like the Flood and Necromorphs is a more interesting development than some deranged and whiny teenager taking control through author fiat.

Did the Enumerate timeline not inspire you to write anything? I've got a bazillion campaign ideas.

I am even inspired to do something like "If the Emperor had a text-to-speech device" with the Overmind and Niadra. The Overmind would be resurrected by Niadra to help her kill the Protoss, but the Overmind would be operating according to manual canon and be baffled by the bizarre direction and retcons of the games.

Overmind: "Kill the Protoss? Our purpose is to assimilate the Protoss."
Niadra: "It is? But the Protoss cannot be assimilated?"
Overmind: "Indeed? Why is it so?"
Niadra: "I... don't know. Hybrids are as common as flies and die as quickly."
Overmind: "Hybrids of Protoss and Zerg? Who created them, as mere canon fodder no less?"
Niadra: "A Terran brood called Mobius."
Overmind: "I expected nothing less of feeble Terran sciences. Let us speak no more of these living abortions. Who ordered you to kill our fated foe?"
Niadra: "The Queen of Blades."
Overmind: "Who is this Queen of Blades?"
Niadra: "Do you not remember, Overmind? Your favored daughter over who you gave leadership of the Swarm."
Overmind: "I remember no Queen of Blades. My loyal cerebrates have led the broods in my stead for the past countless millennia."
Niadra: "What is a cerebrate?"
Overmind: "None can remember my blessed prophets? I wonder who they angered so to merit such a fate. The cerebrates are beloved larvae whom I gifted with massive forms composed of cerebral tissue, that they might carry forth my will to the innumerable broods."
Niadra: "Why do that Overmind? It sounds vastly inferior to a brood mother. Why did you not make us instead?"
Overmind: "Let us create a cerebrate so that you may see for yourself."
Niadra: "I look forward to its birth!"

Et cetera.

[ragnarok]

Need a power source? Khaydarin! Capacitor? Khaydarin? Memory storage device, warp drive, communications equipment, computer interface, teleportation? Khaydarin!

Constipated? Khaydarin!

I had hoped they'd find a better usage for it. In some ways this is why I'm hoping for the next novel to focus on the Tal'darim, see if they can do anything different via them

[ragnarok]

Sure, that's a retcon of that Pylon description in the manual but that doesn't mean it's still generally rare to find out in the universe.

It can apparently grow wherever it's found but it's still a resource in limited supply found only on select planets (ones most likely visited by Xel'naga since it seemingly comes from them).

True, though it's not yet explained the origins of the crystals. The manual only said the Xel'Naga used them, not that they CREATED them. Still, I'm hoping it doesn't come to just "oh it was just something Amon brought from the Void." In the case of terrazine I'll accept it, but not the crystals.

[Mislagnissa]

I do not expect great things from Starcraft anymore. The taldarim are sith lords, khydarin is a plot device, the plot falls apart under cursory examination, blah blah blah.

Why do you keep torturing yourselves by hoping it could get better? You are better off going to the Warhammer 40k fandom. The tyranids are not pansies like those brood mothers and primals are.

[Turalyon]

True, though it's not yet explained the origins of the crystals. The manual only said the Xel'Naga used them, not that they CREATED them.

Eh, that's not really important. The crystals may or may not have been created the Xel'Naga, but they are the source for the Khaydarin that we see in the K sector.

Why do you keep torturing yourselves by hoping it could get better?

Rag just gonna keep on Raggin' I spose.

[Visions of Khas]

You are better off going to the Warhammer 40k fandom. The tyranids are not pansies like those brood mothers and primals are.

I dusted off Dawn of War II a month or so back and got back into all the WH fluff. GW are actually progressing the story, and the tyranids are absolutely wrecking the forces of Chaos.

I always wished that Blizzard put just a little more emphasis on the smaller military units and factions. The sheer detail in the Astartes chapter histories is breath taking and leads to very interesting chapter synergies and rivalries. There could be so many smaller stories to tell. Maybe if 90% of all terran worlds were wastelands, there would be some sense of loss when Agria fell. Instead, every other Terran colony is a verdant world of life. Maybe instead of pursuing that happy ending, Blizzard could just let there be a lull in the storm.

[sandwich_bird]

I do not expect great things from Starcraft anymore.

But Metzen is gone, you should be happy I would have preferred seeing Samwise leave though...