Random Thoughts Thread

[Gradius]

Not to be nitpicky, Gradius, but stone-age Protoss during the Aeon of Strife is an SC2 era retcon.

That's why I said "I want to adhere to current canon".

But the manual states that the protoss build their own warp gates and developed new sciences unknown to the xel'naga. The idea that it is all a magic xel'naga black box was introduced in BW, not SC1. (EDIT: And both could have easily shared their tech with each other or something)

So? It's my prerogative as a campaign creator to do what I want.

I never said there weren't stone age protoss during the Aeon of Strife. Didn't they nuke themselves to the Stone Age? However, there are several skirmish maps that state they fought on other planets during the Aeon, so clearly they had interstellar nations even in canon.

If they've got warp travel and devastated the galaxy, they're hardly stone age.

But they fought on other planets during the Aeon according to canon maps. Clearly, they had interstellar nations during the Aeon and it makes sense to assume they had interstellar nations before the Aeon. It makes no sense for anyone to call the Aeon the worst galactic war if it only covered one planet. That's also the only way to have forgotten ruins everywhere. (EDIT: And the galaxy isn't the same place in each historical era, so multiple conquests are not equivalent)

It's not called a galactic war anywhere. It's the "most violent civil war ever recorded in galactic history", which can be referring to the death toll. Either way, it's my choice as a campaign creator to do what I want, right?

I never said they weren't. Canon says they are declined from a golden age millennia past. My modern protoss empire is in the middle of a renaissance, even if they have yet to reach the power of their ancestors. That's the entire reason why they would ever be interested in ruins and relics of the lost age. They can't have forgotten ruins with superweapons and stuff and be in their apex at the same time.

Ok, well, I want my protoss empire to be at its apex. Why do I need to check in with your non-canon universe to make sure that's ok?

It's only going to "improve" anything if you are invested in telling stories within a shared universe. I can't convince you to adopt anything if you aren't invested in that.

I guess it would be cool, but nobody complained that Annhilation or Ignos didn't have a shared universe. You can pretend they take place within Enumerate if you want, and what does that change for you? Nothing really.

Again, not enough gain for the effort.

It doesn't matter much now, does it? This forum is probably going to vanish forever by the end of the month since DarkStarLLC closed down on June 1st. It's a real pity because I liked all those interviews and articles and editorials on the front page.

Is the site going to die or will everything be moved or archived somewhere? I suspect we only have until the end of the month.

No idea. I've been coming here for too long anyway. :P

[Mislagnissa]

I guess it would be cool, but nobody complained that Annhilation or Ignos didn't have a shared universe. You can pretend they take place within Enumerate if you want, and what does that change for you? Nothing really.

Again, not enough gain for the effort.

You don't want to tell a story set in a shared universe, so it won't provide enough gain for your efforts. Enumerate makes a few decisions about its history to setup plot hooks, like giving the protoss a galactic empire prior to the Aeon to justify various ruins lying around for anyone to plunder, and if you aren't interesting in taking advantage of those hooks then I guess you don't have a reason to use enumerate. I like enumerate because it boils Starcraft down into its essential elements and tries its hardest to provide a sandbox full of plot hooks for creators to work with and act like their stories all take place in the same world even if they never collaborated.

No idea. I've been coming here for too long anyway. :P

I thought you were an admin? Who do we contact for info on the future of the site hosting? There's a lot of material on the site that shouldn't be lost forever. I don't know where else you guys in particular would be discussing Starcraft.

[Turalyon]

Yes, that is why I like Enumerate. It provides a broad outline for numerous authors to use as a guideline to tell stories in a shared universe with an advancing timeline without intruding on their creativity.

The manual does this too. You've yet to provide a convincing argument that it doesn't. Plus, more people know the manual than they do Enumerate. Therefore, there's no motivation for one to even consider Enumerate beyond some personal preference. You see now why there's not many people that are on the bandwagon/ that there's only you as its advocate for being the one and only Sc bible?

Your argument against it feels like naysaying for the sake of naysaying.

Just providing a counterpoint. Really, all those little details and differences you point out are all just variations of the same potential that we already have in the manual.

You have yet to explain how Enumerate's chronology is the least bit restrictive.

I don't have a problem with Enumerate per se; it only seems restrictive because of the way you're selling it and filtering its perspective to the aspects you prefer. Like I said, Enumerate is just a variation of what the manual already provides on a purely objective level. As great as it is, it's unnecessary to have it really.

Unless a story is specifically about Kerry or Duran, who are specifically excised from Enumerate, then I don't see how enumerate restricts grandfathering in existing stories much less fostering new ones based on the unique ideas it introduces like the protoss galactic empire, the assimilated terran breeds and the terran conspiracies. Even then I came up with a few rationalizations to re-introduce Kerry and Duran as petty tyrants with no actual power to effect change on a noticeable scale (although I still think they are too silly to use and this is just to grandfather in custom campaigns which use them).

Value judgements aside, this is indeed one specific restriction that the manual doesn't have. The manual has just the same amount of potential as Enumerate otherwise, so therefore, the manual would technically be better and all that one would really need.

Also, I think your preferential dislike for a particular character (in this case, Kerrigan) is clouding your judgement a bit. Kerrigan is just a character, just like any other character. You rail about a particular character (Kerrigan) having actual powers to effect change on a notable scale being a "bad thing", but not other characters (like the Overmind, Mengsk and Tassadar) who also have actual power to effect change on a notable scale when they're all ostensibly characters that fulfill a specified role in the narrative.

[Mislagnissa]

What I think does not matter anymore. This site will probably go offline by the end of the month and we will no longer be able to communicate.

So I bid you good bye.

BTW, I would be happy to pay for hosting costs on a new server if there is still a chance to save this site.

[TheEconomist]

If that should happen, someone should contact me. I have mirror backups of SCLegacy.com and SCLegacy forums at various periods since 2009.

[sandwich_bird]

You don't want to tell a story set in a shared universe, so it won't provide enough gain for your efforts. Enumerate makes a few decisions about its history to setup plot hooks, like giving the protoss a galactic empire prior to the Aeon to justify various ruins lying around for anyone to plunder, and if you aren't interesting in taking advantage of those hooks then I guess you don't have a reason to use enumerate. I like enumerate because it boils Starcraft down into its essential elements and tries its hardest to provide a sandbox full of plot hooks for creators to work with and act like their stories all take place in the same world even if they never collaborated.

For the 10000 time, that shared "sandbox" universe already exist and no one wants to work with a random unknown fan fic. Save yourself time, you just don't have arguments strong enough to convince anyone on this. Honestly, if you really want to make the few map makers left to create custom campaigns for you set in your bible, start a contest or something because right now, there's no incentive for anyone to do this. Get a good prize pool, host a digestible version of Enumerate somewhere, contact the map makers on all fan sites and then maybe, it will work.

I thought you were an admin? Who do we contact for info on the future of the site hosting? There's a lot of material on the site that shouldn't be lost forever. I don't know where else you guys in particular would be discussing Starcraft.

That would probably be LordOfAscension but I'm not sure he ever visit the site anymore.

I wouldn't mind hosting it for nostalgia's sake. Now that I think of it, I wouldn't mind hosting blizzforums too haha

[Mislagnissa]

Also, I think your preferential dislike for a particular character (in this case, Kerrigan) is clouding your judgement a bit. Kerrigan is just a character, just like any other character. You rail about a particular character (Kerrigan) having actual powers to effect change on a notable scale being a "bad thing", but not other characters (like the Overmind, Mengsk and Tassadar) who also have actual power to effect change on a notable scale when they're all ostensibly characters that fulfill a specified role in the narrative.

That is a good point and I do feel the same way. So I have little choice but to rationalize away their contributions.

The Overmind is a function of the zerg and its commanders are still essentially acting of their own accord. Unlike Kerry who used the zerg as slaves for her petty desires, the Overmind is interested only in perfecting the zerg themselves and has no desires independent of them. When zerg commanders serve the Overmind, they are serving themselves.

Mengsk is just a figurehead for the Dominion. The government is too sprawling and bureaucratic for him to take all the credit. The real power is the Party. If he dies, there are millions of Party members waiting to take his place.

The narrative focusing on Tassadar at the expense of all the other executors is a real problem that cannot be rationalized away. We need to bring in other executors like Oong, Andinunn and Andraxxus to take the spotlight off of Tass.

For the 10000 time, that shared "sandbox" universe already exist and no one wants to work with a random unknown fan fic. Save yourself time, you just don't have arguments strong enough to convince anyone on this. Honestly, if you really want to make the few map makers left to create custom campaigns for you set in your bible, start a contest or something because right now, there's no incentive for anyone to do this. Get a good prize pool, host a digestible version of Enumerate somewhere, contact the map makers on all fan sites and then maybe, it will work.

I think it is a bit premature to do that. Enumerate still needs loads of refining before then and even the author said they intended to revisit it sometime. That is why I was asking for discussions and feedback.

[TheEconomist]

If it's needed, I could maybe put up some money. It's for a good cause

[Nissa]

Gradius, I didn't say that third quote in your post.

[Gradius]

Gradius, I didn't say that third quote in your post.

Fixd.