Random Thoughts Thread

[Turalyon]

The manual states the zerg did not stand a chance without the determinant. It doesn't matter whether they are fighting in space, on the ground, or with endless reserves, they don't stand a chance.

*Sigh* You keep misinterpreting the role that the determinant plays as being the objective reason as to why the Zerg can't beat the Protoss when it really is just a subjective one based on the Overminds fear. The manual/omniscient narrator is quite clear in expressing that the Overmind feels it can't beat the Protoss without a determinant not that it literally/physically/objectively can't do so without it. By the time the game story finishes, one can analyse the whole story and even bring a strong case forward that the Overmind's pursuit and acquisition of the determinant is actually the reason why it ultimately lost - which is a nice (unintended) subversion of initial expectations.

The question of protoss assimilation only came up because Metzen made a big deal of it and Blizzard was too stupid to keep themselves consistent.

I know you want to think it's this and it may well be, but it's speculation that you're assuming as fact. Don't do that. Your arguments lose all credibility when you do that.

Really, the question of Protoss infestation only really came up post-Sc1 as retroactive continuity - when it was outright stated that the Protoss could never be infested (the jury is still out whether assimilation is still possible but most people assume they are the same thing and are therefore, also immune to it). That's the objective issue/fact.

[Mislagnissa]

Yes, I am bitter that I didn't get the story I wanted and I would most appreciate if you argue with me from the same premises I do rather than relying on the game that I already dismissed as bad/wrong.

In any kind of argument with me about hypothetical custom campaign or fanfiction narratives, which are the only kind I like to talk about, I generally do not accept evidence from the games. I can allow things like increasing the terran population or psi-emitters or secret skirmishes prior to the Great War, but I never accept anything which dramatically deviates from the trajectory as predicted by the manual in isolation.

In short, the premises I operate from include:

• Kerry Sue is not the determinant. The determinant is an army of doom a la Enumerate, like every other zerg breed.
• The Overmind knows where Aiur is/was, but that is irrelevant because the protoss have a decentralized galactic empire.
• The zerg don't stand a chance without the determinant and even then it only gives parity combined with their existing assets, not an instant win button.
• Distances and travel times make or break wars. Protoss teleportation (warp gates, recall, etc) is vastly faster than ship-mounted FTL drives.

[Gradius]

If you don’t accept evidence from the game then stop talking about the game and making definitive subjective statements about it like “Kerrigan can’t be the determinant” and “the Zerg can’t beat the protoss without an army of doom“.

And the Overmind straight up does not have a definite location for Aiur. You don’t understand basic astronomy.

[Nissa]

So Mislag...you're directly stating that you consider fanfiction more "canon" than canon?

Get outta here wit dat mess.

Also, if the Overmind knew where Aiur was, why did he have to tap into Zeratul's mind to get the location?

[Mislagnissa]

clear

[Mislagnissa]

I don't even remember what I was originally arguing about because Gradius, Nissa and Tura have kept me talking in circles for days. I keep arguing using Enumerate as my basis and constantly saying so, but everybody else refuses to engage and stubbornly pretends that I am arguing about the game.

Stop doing that, because it is irritating. If you want to argue, try actually engaging with me.

[sandwich_bird]

Yes, I am bitter that I didn't get the story I wanted and I would most appreciate if you argue with me from the same premises I do rather than relying on the game that I already dismissed as bad/wrong.

The premise that the game is not canon but the supplementary material for the game is? Nah I'm good thanks

I don't even remember what I was originally arguing about because Gradius, Nissa and Tura have kept me talking in circles for days. I keep arguing using Enumerate as my basis and constantly saying so, but everybody else refuses to engage and stubbornly pretends that I am arguing about the game.

Maybe it's because we're fans of the game and because whatever you say always ends up with something along the line of "so anyways, Metzen is satan and everything you guys liked can possibly be good because I think the manual is a bible and enumerate is the new testament". Seriously, go re-read your posts. The hostility you perceive is a reflection of what you write.

[Gradius]

I don't even remember what I was originally arguing about because Gradius, Nissa and Tura have kept me talking in circles for days. I keep arguing using Enumerate as my basis and constantly saying so, but everybody else refuses to engage and stubbornly pretends that I am arguing about the game.

Stop doing that, because it is irritating. If you want to argue, try actually engaging with me.

I love requoting myself:

“If you don’t accept evidence from the game then stop talking about the game and making definitive subjective statements about it like “Kerrigan can’t be the determinant” and “the Zerg can’t beat the protoss without an army of doom“.”

You’re not talking just about Enumerate in these threads, so cut it out with the dishonesty. That’s whats irritating.

[Mislagnissa]

I find discussing the canon games unpleasant. I do not want to discuss them anymore or ever again. Would you please engage with me about the enumerate instead?

[Gradius]

I find discussing the canon games unpleasant. I do not want to discuss them anymore or ever again. Would you please engage with me about the enumerate instead?

Sure. Enumerate is nice and would be nice to have.

Now what?