Random Thoughts Thread

[Gradius]

1) Xel’Naga kept detailed genetic histories (implying that they’re knowledgeable) but nowhere does it say they got access to computer data. They got access to races’ strengths and weaknesses. Read it again.
2) I just explained in vast detail why the Overmind isn’t going to know the location of Aiur... And your only response is to mindlessly regurgitate what you’ve been already been repeating for months. At least educate yourself on some basic astronomy before making definitive declarations that something is a plot hole.
3) The Zerg got the determinant from the Terran worlds which is why they left. And then they destroyed the protoss. I’m sorry that you don’t understand the plot... <_<
4) Sorry I’m not aboard with this blitzkrieg and gateway hacking fanon you have going on. There’s no evidence for that and there’s no reason the Zerg can’t attack the main protoss population nerve center.

[Sheliek]

The data editor is not fun, but finally seeing people play my campaign will make it worth it.

[Visions of Khas]

Am I the only one who wishes the Hybrids looked more like a Wraith or Kraken than what we got? The Nemesis is closest to how I envisioned the Hybrids to appear, but even it's design was lacking. The Reaver and Destroyer strains were so disappointing.

[Sheliek]

I actually really like the Destroyer and Dominator-style Hybrid and wish the entire selection of units had that same design. The inconsistent Hybrid morphology we see annoys me.

[Mislagnissa]

1) Xel’Naga kept detailed genetic histories (implying that they’re knowledgeable) but nowhere does it say they got access to computer data. They got access to races’ strengths and weaknesses. Read it again.

Nowhere does it say the xel'naga ever had computers either. This argument relies on fallacies like no limits and appeal to ignorance, thus is it pointless to argue over.

2) I just explained in vast detail why the Overmind isn’t going to know the location of Aiur... And your only response is to mindlessly regurgitate what you’ve been already been repeating for months. At least educate yourself on some basic astronomy before making definitive declarations that something is a plot hole.

It's a contradiction, not a plot hole! The manual does not remotely imply that the Overmind did not know the location of Aiur or that this was an obstacle to invasion. That is original to the game script, which is full of inconsistencies.

Anyone else (not Metzen) working from the manual would not have drawn that conclusion. Any sane reader (i.e. not Metzen) would conclude that the zerg knew where Aiur was since the manual explicitly specifies they blazed a path towards it

3) The Zerg got the determinant from the Terran worlds which is why they left. And then they destroyed the protoss. I’m sorry that you don’t understand the plot... <_<

Stop citing the game! It does not count because it contradicts the manual. Metzen took a perfectly sensible plot and mangled it beyond recognition. Any attempt to explain his writing is nothing more than an ad hoc rationalization.

Again, anybody else working from the manual would have given us a completely different plot. Case in point, Insurrection and Retribution.

4) Sorry I’m not aboard with this blitzkrieg and gateway hacking fanon you have going on. There’s no evidence for that and there’s no reason the Zerg can’t attack the main protoss population nerve center.

That's not the definition of fanon. Have you tried writing military fiction? Do you understand how tactics, strategy and logistics work in the real world? I am making reasonable assumptions about technological capabilities based on what little the lore explains.

In the manual, travel to and from the Koprulu sector takes decades (and ATLAS was "lost" in warp, so the 1-2k light-years/year mileage may not reflect controlled applications of human tech). It would take years for the zerg to reach Aiur by warp and the protoss would be able to prepare since gates are much faster (evident by their deployment on active battlefields) and they have real-time communication. There is no evidence Aiur is a nerve center of the manual's galactic empire, anymore than Philadelphia is a nerve center of American civilization. It doesn't matter how fast your communication and travel is, the collective bureaucracy and infrastructure of any civilization could not function if centralized to a single place. That's why local institutions exist.

Oh screw it. Trying to argue with you about military science, political science, civics and the consistency/verisimilitude of a fictional world is pointless since you'll just label it fanon anyway. Metzen is stupid, everything he writes is stupid, and it is stupid to cite his writing.

I'm bowing out.

[Visions of Khas]

Stop citing the game! It does not count because it contradicts the manual.

Stop citing the game!

Uhh, I'm sorry, what?

Any attempt to explain his writing is nothing more than an ad hoc rationalization.

Really wondering why you "like" StarCraft to begin with.

[Gradius]

Uhh, I'm sorry, what?

Mislag thinks the manual is inconsistent with the game itself.

Nowhere does it say the xel'naga ever had computers either. This argument relies on fallacies like no limits and appeal to ignorance, thus is it pointless to argue over.

Yeah ok, the most advanced race in the universe didn't have computers... Give me a break.

If your big criticism of the game falls apart at the mere mention of computers, then your criticism sucks. Furthermore, it's your job to prove that they didn't have it if you're going to claim there's a problem. Sorry, but that's how debates work. Otherwise anybody could claim anything and call anything a contradiction.

It's a contradiction, not a plot hole! The manual does not remotely imply that the Overmind did not know the location of Aiur or that this was an obstacle to invasion. That is original to the game script, which is full of inconsistencies.

Anyone else (not Metzen) working from the manual would not have drawn that conclusion. Any sane reader (i.e. not Metzen) would conclude that the zerg knew where Aiur was since the manual explicitly specifies they blazed a path towards it

Sigh. As I've stated multiple times there's nothing wrong with the Overmind having a vague sense or direction of where Aiur is, but he doesn't know the exact coordinates. Do you still not get the complexity and sheer distances involved in space travel? It's like if I made you navigate to a different country whose location you know but I prevented you from using GPS, only it's a million times harder.

Furthermore, stellar drift ensures that stars are not going to be in the same place in the galaxy. Our sun is a ball of plasma that is hurtling around the galaxy at 500000 miles per hour. The Overmind has been alive for "countless millenia" so I guarantee you that even if he did perfectly understand the coordinates, Aiur is not going to be in the same spot after all that time...

Stop citing the game! It does not count because it contradicts the manual. Metzen took a perfectly sensible plot and mangled it beyond recognition. Any attempt to explain his writing is nothing more than an ad hoc rationalization.

You haven't been able to point to an actual contradiction and your arguments basically all boil down to gripes that you didn't get the plot you wanted.

Even if you don't acknowledge that the determinant is Kerrigan or can't deduce that the Overmind assimilated some of humanity's psionic potential, the fact that the game doesn't talk about something from the manual is not a contradiction. Look up the definition of that word before using it again...

That's not the definition of fanon.

Yes it is.

Have you tried writing military fiction? Do you understand how tactics, strategy and logistics work in the real world? I am making reasonable assumptions about technological capabilities based on what little the lore explains.

In the manual, travel to and from the Koprulu sector takes decades (and ATLAS was "lost" in warp, so the 1-2k light-years/year mileage may not reflect controlled applications of human tech). It would take years for the zerg to reach Aiur by warp and the protoss would be able to prepare since gates are much faster (evident by their deployment on active battlefields) and they have real-time communication. There is no evidence Aiur is a nerve center of the manual's galactic empire, anymore than Philadelphia is a nerve center of American civilization. It doesn't matter how fast your communication and travel is, the collective bureaucracy and infrastructure of any civilization could not function if centralized to a single place. That's why local institutions exist.

Oh screw it. Trying to argue with you about military science, political science, civics and the consistency/verisimilitude of a fictional world is pointless since you'll just label it fanon anyway. Metzen is stupid, everything he writes is stupid, and it is stupid to cite his writing.

I'm bowing out.

I can think of dozens of solutions for how the zerg could defeat the protoss military with an integrated warp network, but more importantly, none of this crap is talked about in the game or manual. Once again, you've fanoned up some imaginary scenario that doesn't make sense (like Xel'Naga not having computers), but instead of placing the blame on yourself for creating some outlandish fanon that isn't consistent with the game, you instead blame it on "Metzen's crap writing" because that requires less brain cells and gives you an excuse to whine about not getting the plot you wanted.

Dont get me wrong, I’ve been blaming Metzen for his crap writing for years, but the way you go about it is just way off.

[ragnarok]

The data editor is not fun, but finally seeing people play my campaign will make it worth it.

What do you hate about it?

[Sheliek]

It's just tedious in large doses. I've been making a point to work on the mod itself for a few hours, then stop and work on lore or sketch out map designs so I don't get burnt out.

[vainggooch]

it is good.