[Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

[RODTHEGOD]

I'm not exactly sure what would have been the best ending for Kerrigan.

A "happily ever after" just doesn't feel right but I don't think her getting killed or locked up is the right way to go either.

After having some time to think about it. The idea of Jim sparing Kerrigan's life after she gets de-infested isn't a bad one but blizzard didn't execute it properly. We should have been reminded of Raynor's vow to kill her at least twice (flashbacks or something) in the WoL campaign, and "killing the Queen of Blades" should have been the official plan among all the characters right up until the point Raynor spares her. I think that would have been a good way to end the Raynor's vow story arc.

However what happens after? Was the QoB just some twisted wile of the Overmind? Or was it really Kerrigan? If she was actually the QoB, then going through the re-infestation story arc kinda makes sense for her character as what else would the QoB do? However, the whole "going to Zerus" to become a "purer form of the QoB" was just stupid on so many levels. Though admittedly I don't know what else would have been an appropriate way for her to get re-infested. Maybe go visit the carcass of the Overmind? I also think it would have been more interesting to see a highly intelligent, newly created, first of it's kind, zerg creature rise to power rather than a human.

If The QoB was just a servant of the Overmind... Well that makes things a little more difficult. A "happily ever after" doesn't make sense; too many people would want her dead even if you don't include Mengsk and his subordinates. There's no way she'd survive as a human. Perhaps, her getting killed at this point by order of Mengsk pushes Raynor over the edge; Making a Mengsk 2.0 if you will. But I don't know if I like the idea of Raynor becoming the bad guy. His character is one of the common man trying to do the right thing. It just doesn't fit. Perhaps Kerrigan re-infesting herself was really the only option unless kerrigan was never de-infested in the first place. But I can't really think of any good ways for the Raynor "kill kerrigan" arc to be satisfied in that scenario.

It's a tough call.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

That kinda cheapens the whole plot and isn't really a redemption. Redemption stories have to have the character do something meaningful. In the Graphic novel version of kickass Red Mist saves Hitgirl from assassins, but gets a fatal bullet wound in the stomach. He dies from it and Hit Girl makes it very clear that it isn't enough to make amends. However, even if it doesn't fully absolve him of his other crimes it's enough that it kinda qualifies (saving a former foe at the cost of his own life in a desire to make things right.)

Honestly, Kaiser and Economist are being wankers.

oh Fuck off, dude.

I am a wanker for not accepting a terrible epilogue where an asshole get's everything she desired (and more) with no negative consequences and doesn't have to even as much as apologize for her crimes?

Kerrigan in SC2 sucks and so does her entire fan-service-y arc.

BOOOORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!! !!!! Having her only ever be a pawn and tragic gets boring. Having her lay the past to rest and become a hero would be a good way of ending her story. Even if she sacrifices her life to save the universe it's better. Heck LOV wrapped her story up. All in all I see a happy ending or at least bittersweet ending. All I can say is that if you think being a test subject the rest of her life is a good ending than WTF is wrong with you. That's just depressing and not in a good way. That's warhammer depressing and it's the kind of grim that only an emo teenager would like

Nope, no good ending is deserved for this character, I would've been pleased if one of those Void spires fell on her and killed her in the most anti-climatic fashion possible.

it would prove that Blizzard didn't actually make a mary sue creator's pet.

oh well, gotta have your mass murdering psychos get everything they want and not be criticized by anyone (except the villain) because that's GOOD and FUN writing.

[DarthYam]

oh Fuck off, dude.

I am a wanker for not accepting a terrible epilogue where an asshole get's everything she desired (and more) with no negative consequences and doesn't have to even as much as apologize for her crimes?

Kerrigan in SC2 sucks and so does her entire fan-service-y arc.



Nope, no good ending is deserved for this character, I would've been pleased if one of those Void spires fell on her and killed her in the most anti-climatic fashion possible.

it would prove that Blizzard didn't actually make a mary sue creator's pet.

oh well, gotta have your mass murdering psychos get everything they want and not be criticized by anyone (except the villain) because that's GOOD and FUN writing.

Given that when Kerrigan is selfish things blow up in her face (the reason Jim saved her in HOTS is because she chose the morally correct option over the expedient one) and that when she's selfless things work for her. Also, I'm pretty sure restoring life to dead worlds and taking on the Xel'naga message of giving life is an apology (she now wants to create life to make up). Kerrigan agreed to merge in order to save the other races and make amends (since Amon's death secured the future for everyone.)

[DarthYam]

????

What's with the emotion? May I reply that I find that "redemptive" ending to be completely "boooooorrrrrriiinnnnnngggg"?

Uh, a writing idea generally isn't depressing in a good or bad way until it is executed. Besides, I'm not saying Kerrigan should be a pawn, I'm saying she always has been a pawn. Seriously, that's all she is in SC, and in BW she's incapable of acting outside of her emotional needs, namely, for power and revenge. If you think that's boring, well then, you must think SC/BW are boring.

I'm saying that her as a pawn could get boring after a while. If things are only miserable and depressing, either for a character or a setting why should anyone care? Being a pawn worked in SC1 but if that's all Kerrigan is EVER than it gets boring. Condemning any character to being a lab rat strikes me as kind of atrocious.

[ragnarok]

I would only be okay with a Kerrigan redemption plot if she died in the end. Not like noble sacrifice, or anything like that, just dies. Or she sort of regrets some of her actions, but is incapable of taking action that would help her escape the swarm.

The whole regretting part is meaningless if her actions don't show for it. This was the main problem in HotS due to her focus on revenge.

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That kinda cheapens the whole plot and isn't really a redemption. Redemption stories have to have the character do something meaningful. In the Graphic novel version of kickass Red Mist saves Hitgirl from assassins, but gets a fatal bullet wound in the stomach. He dies from it and Hit Girl makes it very clear that it isn't enough to make amends. However, even if it doesn't fully absolve him of his other crimes it's enough that it kinda qualifies (saving a former foe at the cost of his own life in a desire to make things right.)

Honestly, Kaiser and Economist are being wankers.

Something you'd have to deal with ALL THE TIME on the battlenet forums, it really tests your nerves.

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oh Fuck off, dude.

I am a wanker for not accepting a terrible epilogue where an asshole get's everything she desired (and more) with no negative consequences and doesn't have to even as much as apologize for her crimes?

Kerrigan in SC2 sucks and so does her entire fan-service-y arc.



Nope, no good ending is deserved for this character, I would've been pleased if one of those Void spires fell on her and killed her in the most anti-climatic fashion possible.

it would prove that Blizzard didn't actually make a mary sue creator's pet.

oh well, gotta have your mass murdering psychos get everything they want and not be criticized by anyone (except the villain) because that's GOOD and FUN writing.

Stratos, this is EXACTLY why people could have a hard time seeing you're a good person in real life. Yes we know online it doesn't reflect your real self (this applies to everyone), but the way you're acting....

Look I don't have anything against you, but you have to start seeing that just because you disliked the story does NOT automatically mean those that did are "people who deserve to be locked in the insane asylum."

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Given that when Kerrigan is selfish things blow up in her face (the reason Jim saved her in HOTS is because she chose the morally correct option over the expedient one) and that when she's selfless things work for her. Also, I'm pretty sure restoring life to dead worlds and taking on the Xel'naga message of giving life is an apology (she now wants to create life to make up). Kerrigan agreed to merge in order to save the other races and make amends (since Amon's death secured the future for everyone.)

Ultimately however she merely did this for Raynor's sake. The same was true at the end of HotS.

The main problem here is it's not CONFIRMED she's seeding those worlds.

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I'm saying that her as a pawn could get boring after a while. If things are only miserable and depressing, either for a character or a setting why should anyone care? Being a pawn worked in SC1 but if that's all Kerrigan is EVER than it gets boring. Condemning any character to being a lab rat strikes me as kind of atrocious.

And this is why I never blamed her for her actions in HotS. Your first decisions in life are always bound to turn out as crap because you have no experience yet

[Turalyon]

A "happily ever after" just doesn't feel right but I don't think her getting killed or locked up is the right way to go either.

Too right! Being absolved scot-free and taking no responsibility is too easy an out for her, as is just having her straight-up killed as punishment for her sins. Given that her crimes are to do with her selfishly getting things her way, her redemption and reward for it should not involve the same thing of selfishly getting something that ultimately improves her lot. The reward should be the act of doing something good and not expecting/getting anything in return. Anything more than that threatens to make them too perfect and idealised. I guess that's why the epilogue is often criticised because it makes Kerrigan into a Mary Sue/turns the whole affair into what looks like fanfic.

[TheEconomist]

Stratos, this is EXACTLY why people could have a hard time seeing you're a good person in real life

What do people say about you, Ragnarok? Oh my ...

[Nissa]

I'm saying that her as a pawn could get boring after a while. If things are only miserable and depressing, either for a character or a setting why should anyone care? Being a pawn worked in SC1 but if that's all Kerrigan is EVER than it gets boring. Condemning any character to being a lab rat strikes me as kind of atrocious.

Ah, I see. You're not looking at it like a writer. It would seem you like Kerrigan so much you want her to have a good ending, despite all. Thing is, Starcraft was at its best when it had consequences. When doing wrong meant a character would get it in the end. Basically every character has a tragic struggle, even Mengsk. When you make Kerri have a pretty princess ending, it cheapens the whole thing. Kerrigan's fate needed some level of punishment or hardship to make it acceptable, which is why so many people are pissed off by the epilogue -- she never got what she deserved.

There is no such thing as "atrocious" for a fictitious character except in specific circumstances. As Stephen King said, "murder your darlings." Indeed, it's often stated in writing books that a story is all the crap a character goes through to achieve their goals. A lab rat fate is only appropriate or inappropriate according to the circumstances of the specific character.

[drakolobo]

ja must assume that in a real context not all good deeds are rewarded and all evil deeds are punished. ascension certainly had the risk the loss of herself as a human

the end does not leave a feeling quite happy, I see a little melancholy, it is unclear exactly what happened with ... one day he disappeared. the truth does not feel that they live a normal life, it seems that his humanity (a normal life) was lost, as the mythical end of Enoch who became something else, leaving humanity (beauty and simple wonders contains a normal life), that leaves me a melancholy / happy feeling

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Given that when Kerrigan is selfish things blow up in her face (the reason Jim saved her in HOTS is because she chose the morally correct option over the expedient one) and that when she's selfless things work for her. Also, I'm pretty sure restoring life to dead worlds and taking on the Xel'naga message of giving life is an apology (she now wants to create life to make up). Kerrigan agreed to merge in order to save the other races and make amends (since Amon's death secured the future for everyone.)

No they don't, actually her being stupid and taking Mengsk alone was the only thing that blew up in her face, that's it.

Secondly I don't think it's been confirmed that she's the one restoring life, and even so it's all in secret, so no.

"I agreed to merge to have ultimate god-like power" such a noble sacrifice. "I helped kill a common enemy" does not an apology make, she had to or she would be fucked.

"Stratos, this is EXACTLY why people could have a hard time seeing you're a good person in real life. Yes we know online it doesn't reflect your real self (this applies to everyone), but the way you're acting...."

Rag, I don't really care how people see me, i'm going to be the same exact asshole I was yesterday and every day before.

ja must assume that in a real context not all good deeds are rewarded and all evil deeds are punished. ascension certainly had the risk the loss of herself as a human

the end does not leave a feeling quite happy, I see a little melancholy, it is unclear exactly what happened with ... one day he disappeared. the truth does not feel that they live a normal life, it seems that his humanity (a normal life) was lost, as the mythical end of Enoch who became something else, leaving humanity (beauty and simple wonders contains a normal life), that leaves me a melancholy / happy feeling

Uh, She has ultimate godly power now.

sorry, but I'm not buying this.