Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

[Turalyon]

I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere that the Terrans were now pure of form, but I guess that makes more sense than the alternative. Maybe. Relatively.

Doesn't have to be stated since it's heavily implied and demonstrated through Kerrigan's ascension. There was no trace of Protoss within her and they were supposed have purity of form (now retconned to not have it in actuality because Amon screwed them up in the beginning) and it's stated that Xel'Naga creation still requires both purity of form and essence. For Kerrigan, the essence part is covered through the Primal Zerg, so humanity must be the "form" part. Otherwise, she couldn't have become a Xel'Naga. Or is she supposed to be something else? Oh and for the record, I hate talking about this stuff and yet I'm compelled to...

Oh, Legacy of the Void retcons the Xel'naga out of history. When you read 'Xel'naga' in the manual, it actually means 'Amon'. Except that after he'd corrupted the Zerg, the Xel'naga actually did show up to stop him and he unleashed the Swarm to destroy them.

I'm surprised they ended up keeping the "nascent Swarm destroying the Xel'Naga" part since that'd be nigh impossible given that the Xel'Naga are gods and all powerful and the Swarm would've have been relatively weak in comparison then. Makes you wonder from whose perspective the original manual was written from given how much of it is selectively so wrong in some places.

Well, having redundant failsafes isn't a bad idea. If he ruins both halves of the equation, then his plan can't be unraveled by one half finding a way to fix itself.

But it's not a failsafe because the Protoss are not half of the equation in actuality at all. Everything that the Protoss are is a corruption caused by Amon and he covered all his bases with them. The communal link was always a trap and yet he still instigated the Aeon of Strife by giving rise to Protoss individuality through initiating first contact and then subsequently withdrawing from them to further ruin them. In this sense, not even the Nerazim are a failsafe like the Primal Zerg because they are essentially ancestors to those Protoss who fought in the Aeon of Strife/wouldn't relinquish the individuality.

There was no need to send the Zerg to kill them at all. The official intended Xel'Naga cycle was already ended then and there. Amon should have sent his Zerg to scour all life other than Protoss instead to stop the reemergence of the cycle (ie: humans).

So you say, but you haven't told me who she is. Why did she want to become the most powerful thing in the Sector? What's her motivation?

What's the motivation of anyone who finally realises they've undergone systematic abuse throughout their whole life and now has the power and freedom (she was supposed to be free after the death of the Overmind) to do something about it? They start to abuse all others in order to share their misery and to prevent any circumstance of being ever abused again. In short, abuse begets abuse.

[Nissa]

So you say, but you haven't told me who she is. Why did she want to become the most powerful thing in the Sector? What's her motivation?

Oh, okay. It's really simple. It's hurt and control. Kerrigan, up until the Overmind's death, was the pawns of people -- the pawns of the Confederacy, then Mengsk, then the Overmind. In her "rebellious teenager" stage (that is, post infestation-pre Overmind death) Kerrigan began to really, truly have power. Since the Overmind never appeared to stop her from doing what he wanted, this is the first time Kerrigan could honestly make her own choices, damn the consequences. At the Overmind's death, she kept her power and lost the final remnant of control other entities had over her. Her fight against the cerebrates was to stop them from trying to re-create the Overmind, and her fight against Mengsk, Duke, and Zeratul was to get revenge on them for the things they did to her (she calls her actions in BW "revenge" when she forces Zer to kill the matriarch, but I kinda assumed she was letting Zer take the fall for Tassadar, since he wasn't around for her to get revenge on. Debatable, I guess). Aldaris and the UED are just people who got in her way, and she didn't have any particular grudge against them -- which is probably why she didn't let DuGalle live. She didn't get a sick kick from watching him suffer.

Kerrigan's emotions are the ultimate motivator, as shown in how she treated Zeratul. It would have been wiser of her to let Raszagal remain her brain-controlled zombie, but by revealing her trick, she hurts Zeratul. That's the only thing she accomplishes by revealing her trick early; it's not at all tactical. Likewise, leaving both Raynor and Mengsk alive can only be motivated by emotional reasons, since she apparently could have killed them when she had the chance. Thus we learn that Kerrigan's real goal is not the Overmind's (SC2 aside): she has no particular interest in universal conquest. She even gets "weary" of killing, she says. It's even possible that the things Raynor said to her had an affect.

In essence (hahaha), Kerrigan wants power so that she can determine her own life path, get revenge on anyone who ever hurt her, and make sure everyone learns that she's the big bad, and there's consequences to disrespecting her. And that's why she stopped at the end of BW. She didn't need to conquer Korhal or Shakuras. She'd basically achieved everything she wanted at that point, and owning a few more worlds wouldn't make a difference. And that's probably why Blizzard had so much trouble with her in SC2. Anyone making a sequel to BW would have to find a way to give Kerrigan new goals, or else just have other races force her into action. It's a pretty difficult spot, and I sympathize with the difficulty the writers had.

Maybe I get Kerrigan a little better because I'm a woman, and think like one. Women are spiteful creatures, and we tend to prefer pragmatic personal goals (Kerri's revenge on those who hurt her) rather than long-term, outside dreams (Overmind's desire to assimilate all races). This isn't an absolute rule, but yeah.

[FanaticTemplar]

(now retconned to not have it in actuality because Amon screwed them up in the beginning)

Now that I'm dubious about. When Artanis and Kerrigan go through the Xel'naga temple together, Artanis is clearly recognised as having purity of form. Or from another angle, remember how the Artifact reacted to the Ihan Crystal back in Wings of Liberty, and destroyed the Zerg, but did nothing to the Terrans? I'm more than willing to accept the possibility that Blizzard just retconned their entire basis for this story so that Kerrigan could ascend by herself. Maybe she got that 'purity of form' from Ouros instead.

I'm surprised they ended up keeping the "nascent Swarm destroying the Xel'Naga" part since that'd be nigh impossible given that the Xel'Naga are gods and all powerful and the Swarm would've have been relatively weak in comparison then. Makes you wonder from whose perspective the original manual was written from given how much of it is selectively so wrong in some places.

Yeah, this was one of the problems I had with the story before Wings of Liberty ever came out. The Xel'naga were kicked off Aiur by the primitive Protoss and destroyed by the nascent Swarm. They're not gods. And they're not even warriors, either. It's hilarious that the original Xel'naga story is based on the trope of 'treading into God's domain' and being destroyed by your own creation, but now they're actual gods.

But it's not a failsafe because the Protoss are not half of the equation in actuality at all. Everything that the Protoss are is a corruption caused by Amon and he covered all his bases with them. The communal link was always a trap and yet he still instigated the Aeon of Strife by giving rise to Protoss individuality through initiating first contact and then subsequently withdrawing from them to further ruin them. In this sense, not even the Nerazim are a failsafe like the Primal Zerg because they are essentially ancestors to those Protoss who fought in the Aeon of Strife/wouldn't relinquish the individuality.

There was no need to send the Zerg to kill them at all. The official intended Xel'Naga cycle was already ended then and there. Amon should have sent his Zerg to scour all life other than Protoss instead to stop the reemergence of the cycle (ie: humans).

Not a bad idea, but I'm still not convinced that the Protoss aren't still the 'purity of form'. But I meant that corrupting the Zerg was a failsafe, that totally makes sense even if he had already corrupted the Protoss.

What's the motivation of anyone who finally realises they've undergone systematic abuse throughout their whole life and now has the power and freedom (she was supposed to be free after the death of the Overmind) to do something about it? They start to abuse all others in order to share their misery and to prevent any circumstance of being ever abused again. In short, abuse begets abuse.

Oh, okay. It's really simple. It's hurt and control. Kerrigan, up until the Overmind's death, was the pawns of people -- the pawns of the Confederacy, then Mengsk, then the Overmind. In her "rebellious teenager" stage (that is, post infestation-pre Overmind death) Kerrigan began to really, truly have power. Since the Overmind never appeared to stop her from doing what he wanted, this is the first time Kerrigan could honestly make her own choices, damn the consequences. At the Overmind's death, she kept her power and lost the final remnant of control other entities had over her. Her fight against the cerebrates was to stop them from trying to re-create the Overmind, and her fight against Mengsk, Duke, and Zeratul was to get revenge on them for the things they did to her (she calls her actions in BW "revenge" when she forces Zer to kill the matriarch, but I kinda assumed she was letting Zer take the fall for Tassadar, since he wasn't around for her to get revenge on. Debatable, I guess). Aldaris and the UED are just people who got in her way, and she didn't have any particular grudge against them -- which is probably why she didn't let DuGalle live. She didn't get a sick kick from watching him suffer.

Kerrigan's emotions are the ultimate motivator, as shown in how she treated Zeratul. It would have been wiser of her to let Raszagal remain her brain-controlled zombie, but by revealing her trick, she hurts Zeratul. That's the only thing she accomplishes by revealing her trick early; it's not at all tactical. Likewise, leaving both Raynor and Mengsk alive can only be motivated by emotional reasons, since she apparently could have killed them when she had the chance. Thus we learn that Kerrigan's real goal is not the Overmind's (SC2 aside): she has no particular interest in universal conquest. She even gets "weary" of killing, she says. It's even possible that the things Raynor said to her had an affect.

In essence (hahaha), Kerrigan wants power so that she can determine her own life path, get revenge on anyone who ever hurt her, and make sure everyone learns that she's the big bad, and there's consequences to disrespecting her. And that's why she stopped at the end of BW. She didn't need to conquer Korhal or Shakuras. She'd basically achieved everything she wanted at that point, and owning a few more worlds wouldn't make a difference. And that's probably why Blizzard had so much trouble with her in SC2. Anyone making a sequel to BW would have to find a way to give Kerrigan new goals, or else just have other races force her into action. It's a pretty difficult spot, and I sympathize with the difficulty the writers had.

Yeah, that makes sense. It also aligns with my idea of it. I'm not sure that this was actually Blizzard's intention with her character though. She never says anything, nor is anything ever said about her, to confirm this idea. Still, I'll concede the point.

[Nissa]

Well, that's the beauty of the original games. We're never told. We are instead shown. Sure, you didn't seem to think Kerri had proper motivations at first, but sense you say your idea of it lines up, clearly you perceived her natural story path. As opposed to HotS, where her motivations are bluntly stated, repeatedly.

[DarthYam]

I felt that in brood war she was a comic book super villain. Raszegal and the other protoss didn't really hurt her.

Anyway it was possible to have it be her own choice and still have amon influence her.

The man charles whitman (the guy who sniped more than 30 people from a tower in texas in the 60s) was found to have a tumor in the part of his brain that controlled fear and rage. While he still made the choice to carry out the crime, the tumor helped influence his decision. I always felt that the infestation amplified things like rage, anger, aggression while supressing things like empathy and compassion. Amon's taint would have just redirected her anger into something more....sadistic and cold. Essentially Kerrigan was still making the choice but there were subtle influence. The artifact deinfesting her just removed the restraints on her morality and reawakened her sense of empathy and compassion.

[Turalyon]

Now that I'm dubious about. When Artanis and Kerrigan go through the Xel'naga temple together, Artanis is clearly recognised as having purity of form. Or from another angle, remember how the Artifact reacted to the Ihan Crystal back in Wings of Liberty, and destroyed the Zerg, but did nothing to the Terrans? I'm more than willing to accept the possibility that Blizzard just retconned their entire basis for this story so that Kerrigan could ascend by herself. Maybe she got that 'purity of form' from Ouros instead.

It's not that dubious. Because Amon was the one that interfered with them, the Zerg we know don't actually have purity of essence, only the Primal Zerg do (hence the supposed importance of Kerrigan's reinfestation being different and batter). Likewise, due to interference from Amon in all aspects of how the Protoss developed, they actually do not have purity of form (worse, there doesn't appear to be a Protoss equivalent to the Primal Zerg because the Nerazim stem from the Protoss that were initially corrupted by Amon's influence).

As to the artifact, well, it has "new powers as the plot demands". Remember that the same authority that told us that it would harm Protoss just as well as it did Zerg? Well, it didn't in LotV. We can't really use the artifact as evidence of anything since it conveniently does some things and not others. It's a miserable plot device.

Yeah, this was one of the problems I had with the story before Wings of Liberty ever came out. The Xel'naga were kicked off Aiur by the primitive Protoss and destroyed by the nascent Swarm. They're not gods. And they're not even warriors, either. It's hilarious that the original Xel'naga story is based on the trope of 'treading into God's domain' and being destroyed by your own creation, but now they're actual gods.

Yeah, if they were gonna retcon, they should have just gone the whole hog and told us to throw the whole Sc1 manual in the bin instead of keeping the Amon/Xel'Naga being fought off by the early Protoss and Zerg bits. All we have now are these bits of information that will never gel together and make less sense than it ever did.

Not a bad idea, but I'm still not convinced that the Protoss aren't still the 'purity of form'. But I meant that corrupting the Zerg was a failsafe, that totally makes sense even if he had already corrupted the Protoss.

Why do you believe the Protoss still have purity of form? Because of the manual? The manual said the Zerg had purity of essence with the Overmind, too, but apparently that isn't true according to HotS. Given the complete undermining of Protoss history as being all due to Amon's influence (not the Xel'Naga in general), how can you be so sure that the manual isn't wrong about them having purity of form, too?

Corrupting the Zerg as a failsafe is one thing but part of this plan includes compelling the Zerg/Overmind to seek out the Protoss and destroy them. It's this aspect that was totally pointless! If the Zerg never moved off from Zerus, the Primal Zerg may never have arisen and the purity of essence component necessary for Xel'Naga creation extinguished forevermore. With the Protoss already being corrupted, there was no need to send corrupted Zerg to kill them if Amon's goal was to stop the cycle since he'd already done that (by corrupting the Protoss) and ensured it (by corrupting the Zerg). As I said, Amon is dumb.

I'm not sure that this was actually Blizzard's intention with her character though. She never says anything, nor is anything ever said about her, to confirm this idea.

Curious, what did you think Blizz's intention of her character in BW was then?

As to her not saying anything, it's rare for someone who undergoes this sort of thing to really understand themselves, let alone articulate, what's really wrong with them because if they could, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing. As to someone else saying it aloud, Raynor gets close in his rant at the end of True Colours but even he can't nor never really understand what Kerrigan has gone through. I liken Kerrigan's acting out in BW similar to how the Ur-Quan act in Star Control 2 - unlike Kerrigan, they do tell you their reasons (and only under when asked a specific question as if it's a ritual) but they're so screwed up psychologically they can't actually see what they're doing is wrong.

[ragnarok]

In essence (hahaha), Kerrigan wants power so that she can determine her own life path, get revenge on anyone who ever hurt her, and make sure everyone learns that she's the big bad, and there's consequences to disrespecting her. And that's why she stopped at the end of BW. She didn't need to conquer Korhal or Shakuras. She'd basically achieved everything she wanted at that point, and owning a few more worlds wouldn't make a difference. And that's probably why Blizzard had so much trouble with her in SC2. Anyone making a sequel to BW would have to find a way to give Kerrigan new goals, or else just have other races force her into action. It's a pretty difficult spot, and I sympathize with the difficulty the writers had.

Oh that's nothing new. Basically it's like this:

People don't like being under someone else's boot all the time, especially if the guy above you constantly abuses his authority. Kerrigan had this problem all her life during the Confederate days, and finally began to trust again after Mengsk freed her. When it was discovered this was just another betrayal, she saw humanity corrupt and everything, and vowed NO ONE would ever control her again (that's the whole point of the BW).

Problem is, the more you fight the beast, the more you become the beast. And that's why Kerrigan's actions were basically turning her into the very thing she resented.

I felt that in brood war she was a comic book super villain. Raszegal and the other protoss didn't really hurt her.

Anyway it was possible to have it be her own choice and still have amon influence her.

The man charles whitman (the guy who sniped more than 30 people from a tower in texas in the 60s) was found to have a tumor in the part of his brain that controlled fear and rage. While he still made the choice to carry out the crime, the tumor helped influence his decision. I always felt that the infestation amplified things like rage, anger, aggression while supressing things like empathy and compassion. Amon's taint would have just redirected her anger into something more....sadistic and cold. Essentially Kerrigan was still making the choice but there were subtle influence. The artifact deinfesting her just removed the restraints on her morality and reawakened her sense of empathy and compassion.

That's what I felt as well. The anger and rage were always inside her. But as I saw it, the infestation merely opened the doorway. Whether she chose to walk through it or not was her decision. Even in BW, you could clearly see there WERE signs of restraint in her, however small that way.

For the artifact reawakening her sense of compassion, a lot of critics would say otherwise because of the Dominion industrial worlds and everything.

But as I saw it, this is merely because she saw the Dominion people utterly stupid.

I'm willing to bet at the BEGINNING of HotS, Kerrigan already knew what Raynor did in Media Blitz via WoL, exposing Mengsk as a war criminal. Thus her mentality would be, "Look the Dominion is still unhappy about Mengsk, he's in a weak position, now's the perfect time to get him."

If she paid attention to the Dominion in the IMMEDIATE aftermath of the BW, she could see maybe the Dominion people didn't try to dethrone him because the Zerg threat was still out there, and she could attack at any time. The Dominion needed a leader, so they sided with Mengsk, the lesser of two evils. The same was true after Raynor exposed Mengsk as a criminal in WoL because the Zerg invasion was going on, and fighting amongst themselves is bad. Again, lesser of two evils.

But when Mengsk claimed credit for the Char invasion and got the people to follow him again, Kerrigan's mentality was, "Well, this shows the Dominion people are nothing but a bunch of mindless drones who just swallow whatever comes out of the bastard's mouth. Therefore, it's not my problem if they get caught in the crossfire for the industrial worlds because they're too stupid to think for themselves."

[ragnarok]

Now that I'm dubious about. When Artanis and Kerrigan go through the Xel'naga temple together, Artanis is clearly recognised as having purity of form. Or from another angle, remember how the Artifact reacted to the Ihan Crystal back in Wings of Liberty, and destroyed the Zerg, but did nothing to the Terrans? I'm more than willing to accept the possibility that Blizzard just retconned their entire basis for this story so that Kerrigan could ascend by herself. Maybe she got that 'purity of form' from Ouros instead.

She didn't get the purity of form from Ouros. The terrans always had it. This is because the Xel'Naga seed other planets, and those planets evolve to give life. Thus in a way, the terrans were indirectly created by the Xel'Naga. THAT is why in WoL, Raynor was telling Dr. Hanson that the crew were experiencing hallucinations from the artifact. However, since the Zerg and Protoss were subjected to a DIRECT hand from the Xel'Naga, this is why it was lethal to them.

Yeah, this was one of the problems I had with the story before Wings of Liberty ever came out. The Xel'naga were kicked off Aiur by the primitive Protoss and destroyed by the nascent Swarm. They're not gods. And they're not even warriors, either. It's hilarious that the original Xel'naga story is based on the trope of 'treading into God's domain' and being destroyed by your own creation, but now they're actual gods.

Same here. If they were truly Amon's followers they would have retaliated right away and set the Protoss straight as to who's in charge.

Yeah, that makes sense. It also aligns with my idea of it. I'm not sure that this was actually Blizzard's intention with her character though. She never says anything, nor is anything ever said about her, to confirm this idea. Still, I'll concede the point.

It's really hard to know. I mean the only thing we know is at the VERY end, she did show she wasn't doing it for herself anymore. She said she believed in freedom, not the cycle. Thus proving however late in the day, she saw the errors of her ways, and thus is considered commendable.

[FanaticTemplar]

Well, that's the beauty of the original games. We're never told. We are instead shown.

I think you're being a bit nostalgic here. Much as I loved StarCraft, it's not subtle at all. Here's Kerrigan's character:

"Why are you doing this, Kerrigan? Look. I know about your past. I mean, I've heard the rumors. I know you were a part of those experiments with the Zerg; that Mengsk came and saved you, but you don't owe him this!" ~ Jim Raynor, New Gettysburg

Here's Raynor's:

"It's funny... it seems like yesterday Arcturus was the idealistic rebel crusader. Now he's the law, and we're the criminals. It kills me to know that we helped him achieve his goals of conquest. Damnit! I shouldn't have left her go alone." ~ Jim Raynor, The Hammer Falls

Arcturus:

"You don't seem to realize my situation here. I will not be stopped. Not by you, or the Confederates, or the Protoss or anyone! I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me." ~ Arcturus Mengsk, The Hammer Falls

Tassadar:

"Aldaris, I submit myself to the Conclave's judgement. But know this, given the same choices again, I would surely have made them. I have sacrificed my rank and standing, and I have even broken our own most ancient traditions. But never think that I would, for one moment, regret my actions. For I am Templar, and above all else, I have sworn to protect our Homeworld 'till the end." ~ Tassadar, Homeland

Zeratul:

"I beg of you, Zeratul, return with us to Aiur. Though they are petty, and have, in ignorance cursed your kind for generations... help me save our people."
"Since our banishment long ago, we have never failed in our responsibility to Aiur. Though it shall cause us great pain to see our homeland once more, we shall return with you, Tassadar. We will do what we can. ~ Tassadar and Zeratul, Into the Darkness

Why do you believe the Protoss still have purity of form? Because of the manual?

No, as I said the Xel'naga temple on Ulnar recognises Artanis as having purity of form. It also repeats that every time the Xel'naga seed a new universe with life, two species arise, one with purity of essence and one with purity of form. That's from Legacy of the Void, it should be the most recent canon and doesn't mesh at all with your notion that "all life has purity of form unless meddled with by Amon". Hell, by that measure the Primal Zerg, who are the unmeddled Zerg, should already possess both purities and be Xel'naga.

Corrupting the Zerg as a failsafe is one thing but part of this plan includes compelling the Zerg/Overmind to seek out the Protoss and destroy them. It's this aspect that was totally pointless! If the Zerg never moved off from Zerus, the Primal Zerg may never have arisen and the purity of essence component necessary for Xel'Naga creation extinguished forevermore. With the Protoss already being corrupted, there was no need to send corrupted Zerg to kill them if Amon's goal was to stop the cycle since he'd already done that (by corrupting the Protoss) and ensured it (by corrupting the Zerg). As I said, Amon is dumb.

Agreed.

Curious, what did you think Blizz's intention of her character in BW was then?

I don't think Blizzard intended for her to be anything but this brilliant evil mastermind. That's part of the problem, a lot of the reasoning behind the characterisation Nissa laid out is based on the irrational and illogical decisions she makes. The people she spares when she should be killing them, the people she hurts when there's no point in antagonising them, her all-consuming need to gloat in the worst possible moments. And that makes sense, you can tell a lot about how a character works by their flaws, even though a lot of people hate flawed villains for some reason. And if I believed that Blizzard intended for those to be flaws, that would be great. But every time, someone instead comes along to tell us how brilliant Kerrigan is. Like I said at the beginning of this post, the original games weren't subtle at all. I'm certain that Blizzard wanted Kerrigan to be the cold, calculating, in-control villain, not a petty and cruel villain motivated by spite and narcissism.

[ragnarok]

I don't think Blizzard intended for her to be anything but this brilliant evil mastermind. That's part of the problem, a lot of the reasoning behind the characterisation Nissa laid out is based on the irrational and illogical decisions she makes. The people she spares when she should be killing them, the people she hurts when there's no point in antagonising them, her all-consuming need to gloat in the worst possible moments. And that makes sense, you can tell a lot about how a character works by their flaws, even though a lot of people hate flawed villains for some reason. And if I believed that Blizzard intended for those to be flaws, that would be great. But every time, someone instead comes along to tell us how brilliant Kerrigan is. Like I said at the beginning of this post, the original games weren't subtle at all. I'm certain that Blizzard wanted Kerrigan to be the cold, calculating, in-control villain, not a petty and cruel villain motivated by spite and narcissism.

Such lack of logic makes sense. This is one of the few points I will agree with what Metzen was talking about back at Blizzcon 2011. Kerrigan has been controlled virtually her whole life, never had the ability to make decisions on her own.

She wanted to be in control, but the lack of experience made this impossible. We see this in real life as well when it comes to our decisions: in the very beginning when we're first allowed to make our own choices, they tend to end up horribly because we don't have any experience. But as time passes, and you gain more and more experience, your decisions tend to get better because you know what you're dealing with.

You cannot expect your choices to all turn out great if you never had any experience with anything. That's just not possible (at least I can't see that).