Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 93

Thread: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

  1. #71

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    No, as I said the Xel'naga temple on Ulnar recognises Artanis as having purity of form. It also repeats that every time the Xel'naga seed a new universe with life, two species arise, one with purity of essence and one with purity of form. That's from Legacy of the Void, it should be the most recent canon and doesn't mesh at all with your notion that "all life has purity of form unless meddled with by Amon". Hell, by that measure the Primal Zerg, who are the unmeddled Zerg, should already possess both purities and be Xel'naga.
    Ok, you can probably tell I haven't played it otherwise I would've known this (I was basing it off the opinion of others who had played it). Still, it's a little sketchy. The Zerg don't actually have purity of essence due to Amon's influence (only the Primal Zerg do?) and yet the Protoss still have purity of form despite Amon's influence. I guess then that Kerrigan's ascension really has nothing to do with purity of form or essence since Ouros just turned her into another type of hybrid by merging with her and giving its power to her. She's therefore not really a Xel'Naga because she has no purity of form. Makes you wonder what makes Kerrigan so bloody special when Ouros could of chosen a being with actual purity of form (a Protoss) to make an actual Xel'Naga. Eh, it's confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    I don't think Blizzard intended for her to be anything but this brilliant evil mastermind. That's part of the problem, a lot of the reasoning behind the characterisation Nissa laid out is based on the irrational and illogical decisions she makes. The people she spares when she should be killing them, the people she hurts when there's no point in antagonising them, her all-consuming need to gloat in the worst possible moments. And that makes sense, you can tell a lot about how a character works by their flaws, even though a lot of people hate flawed villains for some reason. And if I believed that Blizzard intended for those to be flaws, that would be great. But every time, someone instead comes along to tell us how brilliant Kerrigan is. Like I said at the beginning of this post, the original games weren't subtle at all. I'm certain that Blizzard wanted Kerrigan to be the cold, calculating, in-control villain, not a petty and cruel villain motivated by spite and narcissism.
    I do get that Kerrigan is portrayed generally as a Villain Sue in BW but she is not wholly a one-note Godly one since there are cracks in the facade - they're very few but they're there. They must mean something otherwise they wouldn't have been there at all in order to cement her "Sue-ness". It's the only reason why I like Kerrigan in BW - it's not because she's uber powerful, manipulative, evil and cool (all the superficial and noticeable things she does) - but that there's a hint of damage there and she's somewhat pitiable despite all these accomplishments. Despite what others say (I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here), I think BW Kerrigan actually continues on from SC1 Kerrigan fairly well.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  2. #72

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    I'm certain that Blizzard wanted Kerrigan to be the cold, calculating, in-control villain, not a petty and cruel villain motivated by spite and narcissism.
    From Metzen's own admission, she's meant to be Shakespearean. And honestly, that's wholly very, very evident in almost all of the writing. In terms of Shakespeare, almost all of his villains: Claudius, Iago, Lady MacBeth, Edmund and I think Kerrigan is cut more from the Lady MacBeth and Edmund cloth than from anyone else; are spiteful, selfish, deceitful (successfully so) but also very sadistic, grand and petty.

    Kerrigan fits that mold pretty conclusively. Add in a bit of sadism (from either the suffering she endured or the genetic manipulation the Zerg inflincted on her) and I think her character makes plenty of sense.

    Even the characterization shift from mindless brute in Overmind to cunning, patient manipulator in Queen of Blades is kind of justified in her conversation with Fenix. "I can remember Tassadar teaching you a very similar lesson." "I took that lesson to heart, Praetor. etc." It sounds like mindless grandstanding, but I think Kerrigan genuinely learned to kind of leave hubris behind in that moment; when Tassadar made a fool out of her. And she doesn't kill Mengsk because she didn't WANT to kill him, she wanted him to suffer. He can't suffer if he's dead. Everyone else she killed (Duke, Fenix, Stukov) was because she wanted them out of the way, not out of any sort of personal vendetta.

    I think in part she also just underestimated Mengsk, and thought she could keep him under her thumb once she'd wiped out his army and killed the people in his cabinet or she just didn't want to kill him because on some twisted level he was still important to her.

    Beyond that I think people just expect way too much logical, consistent behaviour from a character who's clearly a psychopath.

    I think you're being a bit nostalgic here. Much as I loved StarCraft, it's not subtle at all. Here's Kerrigan's character:

    "Why are you doing this, Kerrigan? Look. I know about your past. I mean, I've heard the rumors. I know you were a part of those experiments with the Zerg; that Mengsk came and saved you, but you don't owe him this!" ~ Jim Raynor, New Gettysburg
    How does that... sum up Kerrigan's character at all? If anything that's pointing out that Kerrigan's behaviour is nonsensical and Kerrigan sort of just fumbles over it in response (the truth is explained in the Uprising novel).

    It's kind of shitty exposition (as are most of the other things you're pointing out), but it's not the worst I've ever seen; and it's kind of essential.
    Last edited by Aldrius; 11-16-2015 at 04:33 AM.


    The Mother of all Queens!

    Thanks to Dynamik- for the signature!

  3. #73

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    I think in part she also just underestimated Mengsk, and thought she could keep him under her thumb once she'd wiped out his army and killed the people in his cabinet or she just didn't want to kill him because on some twisted level he was still important to her.
    Not that. This was part of her arrogance problem back in BW, for her inability to see even she still had limitations. This was made worse by the victory at Omega. It's exactly the reason why the WoL invasion didn't really have her make a strategy at all, she just thought the swarm's numbers would pwn everything no matter what the circumstances, and look how that turned out. Sure she wanted Mengsk to suffer, but by the end of the BW she had the impression it no longer mattered how much he could rebuild, it wouldn't make a difference on her end.

    Consistency isn't supposed to be something in Kerrigan's character, but that doesn't make her a psychopath. The problem is the lack of experience at having been controlled her whole life. It left her unable to react the way any normal person would, or just outright react in the exact opposite way. This is something we see in real life too.

  4. #74

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Ok, you can probably tell I haven't played it otherwise I would've known this (I was basing it off the opinion of others who had played it). Still, it's a little sketchy. The Zerg don't actually have purity of essence due to Amon's influence (only the Primal Zerg do?) and yet the Protoss still have purity of form despite Amon's influence. I guess then that Kerrigan's ascension really has nothing to do with purity of form or essence since Ouros just turned her into another type of hybrid by merging with her and giving its power to her. She's therefore not really a Xel'Naga because she has no purity of form. Makes you wonder what makes Kerrigan so bloody special when Ouros could of chosen a being with actual purity of form (a Protoss) to make an actual Xel'Naga. Eh, it's confusing.
    Yeah, I have no idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I do get that Kerrigan is portrayed generally as a Villain Sue in BW but she is not wholly a one-note Godly one since there are cracks in the facade - they're very few but they're there. They must mean something otherwise they wouldn't have been there at all in order to cement her "Sue-ness". It's the only reason why I like Kerrigan in BW - it's not because she's uber powerful, manipulative, evil and cool (all the superficial and noticeable things she does) - but that there's a hint of damage there and she's somewhat pitiable despite all these accomplishments. Despite what others say (I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here), I think BW Kerrigan actually continues on from SC1 Kerrigan fairly well.
    I assume you're talking about her reaction to Raynor in True Colors, or is there any other point where she breaks the fašade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    From Metzen's own admission, she's meant to be Shakespearean. And honestly, that's wholly very, very evident in almost all of the writing. In terms of Shakespeare, almost all of his villains: Claudius, Iago, Lady MacBeth, Edmund and I think Kerrigan is cut more from the Lady MacBeth and Edmund cloth than from anyone else; are spiteful, selfish, deceitful (successfully so) but also very sadistic, grand and petty.
    Maybe I'm just focusing on the wrong passages. There's a lot of talking up Kerrigan for the weakest of plots, from her own gloating to Artanis, and that always rubbed me the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    It sounds like mindless grandstanding, but I think Kerrigan genuinely learned to kind of leave hubris behind in that moment; when Tassadar made a fool out of her.
    No way. She's still all about the hubris.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
    It's kind of shitty exposition (as are most of the other things you're pointing out), but it's not the worst I've ever seen; and it's kind of essential.
    I never said it was bad, I said it wasn't subtle.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  5. #75

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    Maybe I'm just focusing on the wrong passages. There's a lot of talking up Kerrigan for the weakest of plots, from her own gloating to Artanis, and that always rubbed me the wrong way.
    This is why I always felt it was wrong despite Artanis getting the info about the Xel'Naga artifact from the Raiders and knowing how it was used to deinfest Kerrigan. Even if he COULD have been convinced if Amon's influence, the actions from her past like those gloatings should have left him in a VERY hostile state towards her. I was somewhat surprised when the hybrid attacked her, he didn't just help the hybrid instead.

  6. #76

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Okay, so I have personal issues preventing me from seeing much about the game at this point. However, I am curious. In BW, the hybrids were talked up like they were all big and bad. What is there deal? Am I foolish for hoping they aren't something besides generic monsters?
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  7. #77

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Okay, so I have personal issues preventing me from seeing much about the game at this point. However, I am curious. In BW, the hybrids were talked up like they were all big and bad. What is there deal? Am I foolish for hoping they aren't something besides generic monsters?
    They're big monsters. I don't like them from a gameplay perspective, nevermind their disappointing lore.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  8. #78

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    I assume you're talking about her reaction to Raynor in True Colors, or is there any other point where she breaks the fašade?
    It's that and the comment about her being weary of the slaughter, plus the feeling of hollowness following her ultimate victory in BW. Note that she only reveals this to no-one but herself (and the audience) because most of the time she's dealing with others and has to put on a "face" to show that she means business/project confidence. If she was intended to just be nothing but a "brilliant mastermind", there wouldn't even be a "facade" for me to even talk about.

    I also find that the only time where she is most considered honest and forthright to others (from an audience perspective) is when she talks about being possibly controlled by the neo-Overmind. I think there's some genuine truth and fear there on her part (especially now that she can actually reflect on her recent history of willing servitude but at worsening cost through the Confeds, Mengsk and then the Overmind). Sure, it relies on subtext since one can also consider this as her just manipulating them to do what she wants but it does give us an alternate reason for why she's doing these things other than "she's doing this for power cos she's just badass and awesome!"
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  9. #79

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Okay, so I have personal issues preventing me from seeing much about the game at this point. However, I am curious. In BW, the hybrids were talked up like they were all big and bad. What is there deal? Am I foolish for hoping they aren't something besides generic monsters?
    Of course not. We expected them to be VERY powerful, yet the hybrids introduced in WoL were meh. Only on Brutal in "In Utter Darkness" were they a threat. Same held for HotS and LotV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    It's that and the comment about her being weary of the slaughter, plus the feeling of hollowness following her ultimate victory in BW. Note that she only reveals this to no-one but herself (and the audience) because most of the time she's dealing with others and has to put on a "face" to show that she means business/project confidence. If she was intended to just be nothing but a "brilliant mastermind", there wouldn't even be a "facade" for me to even talk about.
    That wasn't really weary and everything. It was mainly because Raynor's vow was something she didn't expect to hear from him. Granted Kerrigan felt it was nothing but hollow words, but she didn't think such an act could affect Raynor so hard. Call it a temporary slap to the face and she had to temporarily "recoil". THAT was all the "weary of slaughter" was.

  10. #80

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Unnggh....We spent over ten years wondering about the hybrids and what their deal was, and then this. All our theories and anticipation, all for nothing.

    *sigh*
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

Similar Threads

  1. LotV Trailer!
    By Visions of Khas in forum StarCraft Discussion
    Replies: 275
    Last Post: 03-22-2015, 02:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •