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Thread: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

  1. #31

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Just finished it. Quick thoughts:

    -The whole retake of Aiur opening was kinda stupid but things turned around quick so it's ok
    -Zeratul's death came too quick imo and was kinda lame. But, character became boring longgg ago so I didn't care too much.
    -Loved the purifiers and Fenix was a good addition
    -I hate the fact that all protoss cut their nerve cords but it did made sense in the story. Gonna miss them, toss don't look as cool without them.
    -Loved that the Tal'Darims finally have a real personality and some lore behind them.
    -With that said, Tal'Darims were kinda cheesy but they go well with the saturday morning cartoon story that SC now is so meh
    -Alarak was a typical villain but I really liked him nonetheless. Him and Abathur are the new favorites. We're gonna need some new Terran heroes though; Nova ain't gonna cut it...
    -They handled the whole prophecy bs really well in the end; retconning the retcons made me happy. In fact, I would have been pretty satisfied if not for phoenix kerrigan...
    -Speaking of which, phoenix kerrigan was by far the dumbest thing in all the campaign... wtf were they thinking? I was ok with her ascending to Xel'Naga but hell... why you gotta make her look like that.. Couldn't you just make her look like the other xel'nagas? Or at least, give her an energy form (aka some kind of light cloud with no shape)
    -I was pretty pleased with the look of the xel Naga. Not sure they really physically fit in those temples of theirs though
    -Amon eventually became a decent antagonist. I thought he died a bit too quickly though.
    -Ending was ok. I don't mind the Kerrigan + Raynor thing; it's cute whatever. Why no cinematics though?!(not a true complaint, their in-game stuff is pretty good)

    Final note: In the end, Mass Effe... huh I mean LotV was pretty good. Blizzard finally got it right. It's not perfect but it works. I'm pleasantly surprised and very much satisfied.

    Time to start Fallout 4 now!

  2. #32

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    I think if Metzen's goal was to eventually make Kerrigan human again, there were far better ways of doing it without her ascension to Xel'naga and the jokes that would follow. Seems to be worst part of this expansion, and boy is it real awful.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin View Post
    I think if Metzen's goal was to eventually make Kerrigan human again, there were far better ways of doing it without her ascension to Xel'naga and the jokes that would follow. Seems to be worst part of this expansion, and boy is it real awful.
    Yeah I mean if you HAD to make the ascension, then just make it so that she would lose ALL her power in defeating Amon. Since barren worlds were suddenly able to support life, it's obvious she didn't. That was a major flaw. If you're going to have her live, make sure all her power is gone. After all, this was the one thing Kerrigan wanted a long time ago: she resented having her psionic powers because that's what got her into the Confederate ghost program.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    I agree to an extent. The devolution of their relationship in Brood War was pretty good, and there's that bit in True Colors where you get the impression that Kerrigan realises how much she's lost and might even regret it, it's one of the occasional parts in Brood War I really liked. If they'd continued from that and had Raynor actually end it, that would have been a perfectly acceptable, reasonable and tragic conclusion to their character relationship. I never expected Raynor to stay on that angry high from the very moment after Kerrigan's betrayal, I expected him to feel sad about having to kill Kerrigan, but it was still something he had to do.
    It seems like a more rational thing to do for Raynor to just have given up on Kerrigan entirely, and any chance Kerri has to convince him she's changed (assuming she wanted to/could do so) is too late. Kerrigan's original VA asserted that it was never a romantic relationship, and the idea of them going off into the sunset together, either as what actually happened or in potentia, is utterly ridiculous past BW. But before that, yeah, maybe it could have happened. I just don't think it was ever the best option for the two.

    But Kerrigan was never that important in Wings of Liberty, she mostly matters in how she affects other characters (Kerrigan has sadly never had much characterisation of her own and mostly served as a vehicle for other characters' development, I think this may be due to how abruptly and drastically her personality keeps changing with each game).
    I disagree that Kerri had no development in SC1 She was a great character there, and her story is what made her so popular. If any character is a support for others, it's definitely Aldaris. We never see him at his best, or doing his job under normal circumstances. He's always in a position where he's out of sorts, angry, or just at a loss to do anything about his circumstances. His character serves to reveal other people's character traits.

    Saving Kerrigan may be a bad direction for Raynor's relationship with her, but it's a great idea for showcasing how guilty he feels for not being able to stop Mengsk. She's a shorthand for the millions who died on Tarsonis because of Raynor's failure. Raynor is not just trying to save the woman he loves, he's trying to absolve himself from the guilt he feels for facilitating Mengsk's rise for power, something that's stated straight out in Dangerous Game: "Even you've gotta realise that treacherous bitch cannot be saved... and neither can you." I feel it's such a great line that it entirely justifies Mengsk's involvement as antagonist, despite his otherwise petty or ridiculous priorities and mystifying plans. And that in turn leads to Tychus' arc, where he realises how important this is to Raynor and becomes desperate to prevent him from reaching that goal, because he realises that then he'll either have to destroy his friend, or die. And the choice he makes in the end. I honestly think that if Kerrigan and Raynor's ending from Legacy of the Void had happened here, with them vanishing into the sunset, leaving Matt Horner to continue the fight against Arcturus and Zagara to rebuild the Swarm, I would have been perfectly happy with the Terran story of Wings of Liberty.
    I like your angle, but again, I don't think romance is the best idea for the two. Honestly, I've always seen it like a Mengsk/Raynor/Kerri triangle of antagonism. As a fanfiction writer, any scene with the three of them was fun, because they all hate each other and yet for various reasons can't get rid of each other. They're really like a family. No really. Mengsk's rescue of Kerri (I refuse to believe Kerri is the one who killed his family) was bound to make him like a father figure to her, and this plays out in how Sarah can't disobey Mengsk. Also in how she, as a Zerg, became every bit and more the tyrant that Mengsk was. Like father, like daughter. Raynor's sort of like the rebellious son who abandoned the "family" because he's not like them -- that is, not a horrible power monger willing to go to any extent to get what he wants.

    That's why I was so angry at Mengsk's death. He's a marvelous antagonist with great history, then they replace him with a boring voice from nowhere. That's some crack smoking right there.

    Meanwhile, in Heart of the Swarm, the use of Raynor is mostly to get Kerrigan in a rage-fueled quest for vengeance against Mengsk, and that's actually the driving force for most of the plot. Honestly the romance elements feel pretty awful, because they're superfluous: this is the story that should have happened after StarCraft: the Overmind is dead, the Swarms are in disarray, and a newly freed Kerrigan must rebuild the Swarm to take her revenge against Mengsk for betraying her. My perpetual frustration with Heart of the Swarm was that it was a story that was two games late. So while I agree that the romance was awful in that game, it doesn't feel like it's the driving force of the plot. Honestly, they should probably have Raynor actually get killed and not try to make Kerrigan heroic, and again, this would probably have been great with me.

    So you see, while both stories had their problems, I think Wings of Liberty turned out pretty good nonetheless, and can see Heart of the Swarm also being good if any of a few things had been different. But I can't see any way I would be interested in Legacy of the Void. After Heart of the Swarm, I was angry because they screwed up. After Legacy of the Void, I'm sad because I have no interest in heading in the direction they're going.
    I agree with your general assessment. Not keen on the romance angle, even though your timing is more appropriate. Not sure I agree with Raynor dying, because he was pretty much the MC of SC1, and I wouldn't want him to die, at least until the plot had comfortably settled around another protagonist.

    Likewise, I am uninterested in the future plot of the games.

    Aldaris is honestly one of my favourites. He actually had one of the best arcs in StarCraft. And I keep seeing people who loved Alarak for being such a douchebag to Artanis, and I can almost see it, but Alarak is too external and his character is too limited, he just feels like a jerk to me. Aldaris being a douchebag to Artanis in The Stand though, that I loved. You can see it in how he has to be humble and tolerant to Zeratul and Raszagal even though this is all new to him, then Artanis shows up and says something stupid, and you can just see it in Aldaris' eyes - "now this guy, this guy I can be completely condescending to."

    Incidentally, in retrospect I totally should have seen the Khala's end coming. After Heart of the Swarm, I called the Primals - the good Zerg who had never been corrupted by Amon - "Zerg Dark Templar". I had no idea how right I was.
    *sigh* Yeah, I saw it coming too. Actually, we all should have realized it very quickly if we read the novels. The Judicator were never once portrayed as anything but scumbags, and Aldaris is the only one with complexity. Clearly the Khala was expendible to Blizzard, despite it being something potentially interesting.

    Can I just say that the emphasis of "purity of form" and "purity of essence" is utter bullcrap? Neither of those terms are well defined. I looked up "form" and "essence" on dictionary.com to try and figure out if there's a hidden, archaic meaning that makes those terms make sense. The only thing I could figure out is that all Protoss are beautiful and Zerg all smell the same. Y'know, "essential oils."
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    I always thought "purity of form" was basically the "master race" concept. The Protoss being highly intelligent, telepathic, psionic, durable and their bodies were able to exist even in space.
    As for "purity of essence," I thought it was basically instinct. While the Protoss had purity of form, their lack of essence caused them to go into periods of internal conflict causing their society to regress. The purity of essence allowed the zerg to remain pure as to what they were; an aggressive expansionist race. Their specific bodies or leadership were irrelevant to that instinct.
    At least that's how I understood the two concepts prior to SC2 where I have no idea what they're talking about when they mention essence in HotS.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    It seems like a more rational thing to do for Raynor to just have given up on Kerrigan entirely,
    These two's character arcs are entirely emotional, so what's rational has little relevance. It wasn't rational for Raynor to go to Char risking both Duke and the Zerg because of 'dreams' and 'visions'. It wasn't rational for Kerrigan to spare his life. It wasn't rational for Raynor to help her against the UED, and it wasn't rational for Kerrigan to spare him again - even though she specifically lists him as a threat to be eliminated in that mission. They're pretty emotion-based characters in general too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I disagree that Kerri had no development in SC1 She was a great character there, and her story is what made her so popular.
    Her story was very sad, but it had nothing to do with her. She was fridged to motivate Raynor and as a 'kick the dog' moment for Mengsk. Then she comes back with no apparent connection to her previous personality other than her sparing Raynor. There's no character development there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I like your angle, but again, I don't think romance is the best idea for the two.
    Neither do I, but I would have been fine with this end result. I don't necessarily have to agree with the conclusion of a story to enjoy it, the conclusion just has to be earned. And I think that Wings of Liberty is enough of a journey for Raynor to earn that conclusion. I mean, the same goes for Legacy of the Void really. As much as I hate the destruction of the Khalai culture, I could have accepted it as a good story if there had been some journey, some character-derived motivation for severing themselves from the Khala. But there isn't, they just do it because some evil god lives in their nerve chords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Honestly, I've always seen it like a Mengsk/Raynor/Kerri triangle of antagonism.
    Now that's weird, because there's never been any antagonism between Raynor and Kerrigan. The closest is Raynor's rage after Fenix's death, and even there it's more like he's frustrated that Kerrigan just doesn't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Mengsk's rescue of Kerri (I refuse to believe Kerri is the one who killed his family) was bound to make him like a father figure to her, and this plays out in how Sarah can't disobey Mengsk.
    Agreed. You'll also notice that the Overmind takes that role when she gets infested, with Kerrigan literally calling him 'father', something no other Zerg does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Can I just say that the emphasis of "purity of form" and "purity of essence" is utter bullcrap? Neither of those terms are well defined. I looked up "form" and "essence" on dictionary.com to try and figure out if there's a hidden, archaic meaning that makes those terms make sense. The only thing I could figure out is that all Protoss are beautiful and Zerg all smell the same. Y'know, "essential oils."
    Purity of form was never that clear, but purity of essence could actually be extrapolated from the StarCraft manual. The Xel'naga abandoned the Protoss and declared them a failed creation when the Protoss severed themselves from their communal link. The Xel'naga decided that the Protoss were marred by a 'flaw of essence', and to ensure that this same flaw would not repeat itself in their next creation, they bound them all together into a single overriding 'Overmind', granting them 'purity of essence'. So if the Protoss' selfishness was a flaw of essence, and the hivemind is purity of essence, then that gives a good idea of what essence was. I thus interpreted 'purity of form' to mean that the Protoss were a species of perfect individuals, and the Zerg's 'purity of essence' meant they were a perfect species formed of imperfect parts.

    You'll notice that both of those things - the Protoss' communal link (the Khala) and the Zerg Overmind - are now Amon's slavery, which is what I meant by the purity of essence retcon being incredibly thorough. Now 'purity of essence' apparently means changing shapes without changing what you are or something. I think in the new lore, 'form' means body and 'essence' means spirit or soul.

    EDIT: You know, with that whole retcon thing, since both the Overmind and the Khala were Amon's slavery, the Overmind's line about how the Dark Templar were able to harm him because "they wield energies much like my own" becomes really hilarious.
    Last edited by FanaticTemplar; 11-13-2015 at 01:02 PM.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  7. #37

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    These two's character arcs are entirely emotional, so what's rational has little relevance. It wasn't rational for Raynor to go to Char risking both Duke and the Zerg because of 'dreams' and 'visions'. It wasn't rational for Kerrigan to spare his life. It wasn't rational for Raynor to help her against the UED, and it wasn't rational for Kerrigan to spare him again - even though she specifically lists him as a threat to be eliminated in that mission. They're pretty emotion-based characters in general too.
    I meant rational in terms of writing. Emotionally speaking, I don't see a man ever loving a woman who killed his best bro. Not to mention that Raynor's lost his home, the only leader he thought cared, and Tassadar. For a man who's lost so much, he's not going to be quick to forgive and forget when someone took what little he has left. Romance is just right out.


    Her story was very sad, but it had nothing to do with her. She was fridged to motivate Raynor and as a 'kick the dog' moment for Mengsk. Then she comes back with no apparent connection to her previous personality other than her sparing Raynor. There's no character development there.
    I meant within SC1. And no, she's a character making a lot of choices and manipulating a lot of people. You can argue the logic of her actions in BW, but the fact of the matter is that she was taking action, not simply appearing to make other characters stronger. She gave as good as she got, in that department. Just the fact we know her better than we know Aldaris establishes this.

    Again, SC2 aside.


    Neither do I, but I would have been fine with this end result. I don't necessarily have to agree with the conclusion of a story to enjoy it, the conclusion just has to be earned. And I think that Wings of Liberty is enough of a journey for Raynor to earn that conclusion. I mean, the same goes for Legacy of the Void really. As much as I hate the destruction of the Khalai culture, I could have accepted it as a good story if there had been some journey, some character-derived motivation for severing themselves from the Khala. But there isn't, they just do it because some evil god lives in their nerve chords.
    If you like, but I'll still never get over it, for its own sake. This has effectively killed my interest in the Protoss, because it's clear Blizzard only likes Templar, and mainly Dark ones. Thus, we know for a fact that the Protoss will never be more than shallow tropes, bound to the whims of a company with high turnover. That, and I liked the idea that neither side of the Protoss was wrong, in and of itself, but it was the way the Khalai treated the DTs that was wrong (allow me to emphasize Khalai; there's no reason why only Judicator would hate them. Since it's been so long since they were expelled, the hatred has to be more of a cultural thing, rather than a caste one). This is a retcon in SC2, which ignores the idea of the light and the dark working together, all for the sake of a trite, anti-traditionalist message and appallingly bad cutscenes.

    Now that's weird, because there's never been any antagonism between Raynor and Kerrigan. The closest is Raynor's rage after Fenix's death, and even there it's more like he's frustrated that Kerrigan just doesn't get it.
    You seem to be interpreting antagonism in purely physical or attacking terms. I mean it in the broader sense -- in writing, the antagonist is the bad guy, the person who stands in the protagonist's way. They're in each other's way, they hate/distrust each other, antagonism.


    Agreed. You'll also notice that the Overmind takes that role when she gets infested, with Kerrigan literally calling him 'father', something no other Zerg does.
    I was always iffy on that end. Sure, she calls him father, but she never at any point acts like she has that relationship with him -- her first act out of the chrysalis is to disobey his order to kill all the surrounding humans.


    Purity of form was never that clear, but purity of essence could actually be extrapolated from the StarCraft manual. The Xel'naga abandoned the Protoss and declared them a failed creation when the Protoss severed themselves from their communal link. The Xel'naga decided that the Protoss were marred by a 'flaw of essence', and to ensure that this same flaw would not repeat itself in their next creation, they bound them all together into a single overriding 'Overmind', granting them 'purity of essence'. So if the Protoss' selfishness was a flaw of essence, and the hivemind is purity of essence, then that gives a good idea of what essence was. I thus interpreted 'purity of form' to mean that the Protoss were a species of perfect individuals, and the Zerg's 'purity of essence' meant they were a perfect species formed of imperfect parts.

    You'll notice that both of those things - the Protoss' communal link (the Khala) and the Zerg Overmind - are now Amon's slavery, which is what I meant by the purity of essence retcon being incredibly thorough. Now 'purity of essence' apparently means changing shapes without changing what you are or something. I think in the new lore, 'form' means body and 'essence' means spirit or soul.
    I have a feeling that you've just explained it far better than the game did.

    EDIT: You know, with that whole retcon thing, since both the Overmind and the Khala were Amon's slavery, the Overmind's line about how the Dark Templar were able to harm him because "they wield energies much like my own" becomes really hilarious.
    LOL. Oh the monstrosities we weave when we forget our own canon.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I have a feeling that you've just explained it far better than the game did.
    I feel like if you haven't actually played the game you shouldn't be allowed to talk about it or discuss quality.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    I feel like if you haven't actually played the game you shouldn't be allowed to talk about it or discuss quality.
    That's why I said, "I have a feeling." I have seen parts of LotV, and I usually only talk about the story aspects of the game, which I do not need to play the game to understand. I only speak towards the aspects of the game I know, so relax already.
    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Drake's LotV Review/Recap [SPOILERIFFIC]

    Here's my take on the two purifies.

    The Protoss really do fit a "master race" concept: they're long-lived, powerful, telepathic. They created a great and glorious culture that explored the stars for millennia. Their flaw is a lack of unity and inability or unwillingness to adapt; they're prone to civil wars, they divided themselves into the Caste and Tribal structure on their own, and they're heavily steeped in tradition and are slow to change. The Protoss appear a perfect race, but beneath the space elf exterior they are their own worst enemies, to borrow the quote.

    The Zerg on the other hand seem barbaric, violent, chaotic, and cannibalistic. Their flaw is a lack of any true higher society and intelligence. Left to their own devices without a leader, the Zerg are barbaric, violent, and chaotic. Even the Tribal Zerg, while intelligent, have been evolving for thousands of years, and never developed anything you could call "civilization" - they don't even build things. However, they are highly adaptable and ever-changing in this. Their assimilation biology means they are always growing stronger, always stronger, forever.

    The Protoss have a great culture that makes them a mighty people, but their poor sociology is their shortcoming. The Zerg have a steady social structure that ensures the race will always survive and grow, but they have no culture and no real civilization. The Protoss's "purity of form" is their extroversion, at a cost of introversion; the Zerg's "purity of essence" is great introversion that comes at the sacrifice of extroversion. United, you have the perfect race in both psychology and biology.

    To an extent, you still see this in SC2 - HotS sees Kerrigan united the directionless Zerg and giving them a directive, a higher purpose, while LotV sees Artanis uniting the Protoss and urging them to let go of their prejudices to do so.
    SC2 handle - "DrakeyC, code 929"

    I ARE A PROPHET! I've predicted three major aspects of SC2 correct, more or less.

    June 2007 - I predicted the Protoss campaign would give you new tech as you conducted diplomacy among tribes.

    Hidden Content:
    July 18th 2010 - I predicted Raynor would broadcast information of Mengsk's actions on Tarsonis to discredit him and incite rebellion.


    Hidden Content:
    June 16th 2010 I predicted the Voice in the Darkness was the commanding force behind the Hybrids. I'm calling it half-right.

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