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Thread: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

  1. #11

    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    Considering the seriousness of SC2 I'd say Alarak was pretty good. He was much of a better dark side of Artanis than Tosh ever was for Raynor. He is also a grey face of the Tal'darim. He steps not a single mm into a more complex character than any "Disney-like" character, though.

    If someone had to be a better character, it would be Zeratul. Moreover, it was brief.

    FT, I disagree. The Tal'darim are essential to the plot. It is not emphasized enough; but before the first hybrids sprung out Amon/Narud needed some serious allies. The final arc they participated on in LotV was solid, unlike the WoL and HotS "Protoss faction" roles.

    Lol factions colors were a mess even in BW. I like that at least decals make sense in SC2.
    In the end, the Tal'darim was actually more unified than the Khalai ever were. And because they were not under the Khala, they could not be "controlled" by Amon in such a way. All Amon did was merely manipulate them. In that regard, the Tal'darim, like the Dark Templar, are a little bit like the primal Zerg from HotS: Amon can't control them.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    I'd say Amon didn't need the Tal'darim at all. All of the Hybrid production and research was conducted by Arcturus Mengsk's Dominion and, later, the Moebius Corps. Incidentally, remember how Moebius' team in The Dig was wiped out by the Tal'darim? Some things just get weirder in retrospect.

    It was acceptable and a huge step up from their appearances in the earlier games, but nothing that justified their existence.
    During WoL and HotS, Amon used Tal'darim as the Protoss ingredient for the Hybrids. This is why the Tal'darim joined Amon, they wanted to ascend. The Terrans were only used because Amon wanted no faction (including Terrans and Protoss) to have control over his production. He rotated from the Confederacy to the UED and then to the Domion. It is unclear if Mengsk really knew about the Hybrids at all.

    "Can you hear them, Zeratul? They are coming.", was all Kerrigan said back in WoL. However this means she was involved in the major conflict at that time. Controlling the broods alone would remove Hybrid resources from Amon. Invading the Dominion worlds in WoL now makes a lot of sense. She was probably hunting production facilities. Finally, Kerrigan was taken out of the fold by Narud. By removing her Narud accomplished two things, control of the Swarm and releasing Amon from the Void.

    By the time Narud fell the Terrans were taken over through mind control by Amon himself. Facilities were now on his complete control.

    Then when the Templar fell on Aiur, he switched to that Protoss resource. Alarak was infuriated by this change of events.

    At this moment in time, just after the Spear of Adun escapes, Amon had the following:
    • Mindless Zerg Resources
    • Mindless Protoss Resources
    • Mindless Terran Facilities


    Then, the remaining factions were supposed to be killed. Enter Artanis.

    I do not see hostilities between Moebius Corps and Tal'Darim as a plot hole. In strategy, I would not like my foe to know that these two factions work together. As well, there are two sides to the Moebius group at that time: Mind controlled and regular Terran Scientists.

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    Colours were inconsistent in Brood War, but in the final mission of Legacy of the Void I lost precious seconds trying to get my Void Rays to fire on the Tal'darim Mothership because I thought it was a Golden Armada Mothership. I can't waste a dozen Void Rays' worth of damage for multiple seconds on Brutal, that bit of terrible game design cost me that game. Even if you don't care about keeping them aspected for lore, team colours' primary role in game design is telling friend from foe.
    I'll give you that. Most of the campaign was nice, but this was definitely confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    In the end, the Tal'darim was actually more unified than the Khalai ever were. And because they were not under the Khala, they could not be "controlled" by Amon in such a way. All Amon did was merely manipulate them. In that regard, the Tal'darim, like the Dark Templar, are a little bit like the primal Zerg from HotS: Amon can't control them.
    Which is why they were ditched.

    His plan was flawless in regards to everything he could see. I would like to think that Amon was blind of Zeratul's actions through SC2, because of his strong void control. Had Zeratul not gone bollocks about the profecy, Kerrigan would have been uninfested and killed; and Artanis would be under Amon's Control.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    During WoL and HotS, Amon used Tal'darim as the Protoss ingredient for the Hybrids. This is why the Tal'darim joined Amon, they wanted to ascend. The Terrans were only used because Amon wanted no faction (including Terrans and Protoss) to have control over his production. He rotated from the Confederacy to the UED and then to the Domion. It is unclear if Mengsk really knew about the Hybrids at all.

    "Can you hear them, Zeratul? They are coming.", was all Kerrigan said back in WoL. However this means she was involved in the major conflict at that time. Controlling the broods alone would remove Hybrid resources from Amon. Invading the Dominion worlds in WoL now makes a lot of sense. She was probably hunting production facilities. Finally, Kerrigan was taken out of the fold by Narud. By removing her Narud accomplished two things, control of the Swarm and releasing Amon from the Void.

    By the time Narud fell the Terrans were taken over through mind control by Amon himself. Facilities were now on his complete control.

    Then when the Templar fell on Aiur, he switched to that Protoss resource. Alarak was infuriated by this change of events.

    At this moment in time, just after the Spear of Adun escapes, Amon had the following:
    • Mindless Zerg Resources
    • Mindless Protoss Resources
    • Mindless Terran Facilities


    Then, the remaining factions were supposed to be killed. Enter Artanis.

    I do not see hostilities between Moebius Corps and Tal'Darim as a plot hole. In strategy, I would not like my foe to know that these two factions work together. As well, there are two sides to the Moebius group at that time: Mind controlled and regular Terran Scientists.
    I'm not sure about rotating to the UED. Remember, when Kerrigan was discussing this with Zurvan on Zerus, she was saying that Amon died thousands of years ago. I don't think he would have observed the UED's actions, only Duran could. Unless you're saying he could report them back to Amon via the void or something.

    And I doubt Mengsk knew about the hybrids, but I'm sure he had to be suspicious a LITTLE of what Narud was doing.

    Kerrigan's actions in attacking the terrans worlds had nothing to do with the hybrid hunting facilities. I'm not sure she even knew of the hybrid existence by the time of WoL. Remember, in HotS when Stukov was telling her about them, she seemed a little surprised. The same held true (to a degree) in the Flashpoint book, where she, Raynor, and Valerian boarded Prometheus station.

    For the factions to be killed, I can see that on the Tal'darim part, but I'm not too sure about Moebius. He still needed them as his slaves for the hybrid army production.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    His plan was flawless in regards to everything he could see. I would like to think that Amon was blind of Zeratul's actions through SC2, because of his strong void control. Had Zeratul not gone bollocks about the profecy, Kerrigan would have been uninfested and killed; and Artanis would be under Amon's Control.

    My problem with this is from Duran. He knew Zeratul attacked the Dark Moon facility and knew of the hybrid, which could lead him to knowing about the Xel'Naga prophecy. You'd think he would have warned Amon through the void about this.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    I'm not sure about rotating to the UED. Remember, when Kerrigan was discussing this with Zurvan on Zerus, she was saying that Amon died thousands of years ago. I don't think he would have observed the UED's actions, only Duran could. Unless you're saying he could report them back to Amon via the void or something.
    It is implied that Narud could talk back to Amon within the Void.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Kerrigan's actions in attacking the terrans worlds had nothing to do with the hybrid hunting facilities. I'm not sure she even knew of the hybrid existence by the time of WoL. Remember, in HotS when Stukov was telling her about them, she seemed a little surprised. The same held true (to a degree) in the Flashpoint book, where she, Raynor, and Valerian boarded Prometheus station.
    There was a complete mission about saving Moebius scientists from Kerrigan in WoL. The Zerg attacks were premeditated. Besides, those were conversations with Sarah not the Queen of Blades. The Queen of Blades was fully aware of everything that was happening. This is why Sarah had to be "brain washed" upon being uninfested. It was a plot device to hide Amon from the audience until LotV.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    For the factions to be killed, I can see that on the Tal'darim part, but I'm not too sure about Moebius. He still needed them as his slaves for the hybrid army production.
    Only a small part of Moebius was killed. Every army has cannon fodder.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    My problem with this is from Duran. He knew Zeratul attacked the Dark Moon facility and knew of the hybrid, which could lead him to knowing about the Xel'Naga prophecy. You'd think he would have warned Amon through the void about this.
    Which is why Amon was destroying the Xel'Naga temples. Kerrigan herself might have prevented the destruction of the first temples. Obviously chasing an invisible warrior across space was not viable. Amon knew about Zeratul, but he could not find him and kill him.

  5. #15

    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    It is implied that Narud could talk back to Amon within the Void.
    Then I do not understand why Narud didn't order Tal'darim or something to go after Kerrigan by the time of HotS or something. Unless he simply didn't think Zeratul would interfere. He should have factored that in.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    There was a complete mission about saving Moebius scientists from Kerrigan in WoL. The Zerg attacks were premeditated. Besides, those were conversations with Sarah not the Queen of Blades. The Queen of Blades was fully aware of everything that was happening. This is why Sarah had to be "brain washed" upon being uninfested. It was a plot device to hide Amon from the audience until LotV.
    I know about the Moebius factor, but that was merely to stop her from finding the rest of the artifact pieces. She even told Raynor this: that she knew what the artifact really is, and she would have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    Which is why Amon was destroying the Xel'Naga temples. Kerrigan herself might have prevented the destruction of the first temples. Obviously chasing an invisible warrior across space was not viable. Amon knew about Zeratul, but he could not find him and kill him.
    You mean on Ulnar? He would have done that either way regardless of Kerrigan was deinfested at the end of WoL or not.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Then I do not understand why Narud didn't order Tal'darim or something to go after Kerrigan by the time of HotS or something. Unless he simply didn't think Zeratul would interfere. He should have factored that in.
    I guess we just won't ever understand his incompetence. He did try to kill Kerrigan when she showed up on Skygeirr and during Mengsk's attack on Valerian's outpost. An ideal character should have foreseen this; but like many others, Narud is just a petty antagonist.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    I know about the Moebius factor, but that was merely to stop her from finding the rest of the artifact pieces. She even told Raynor this: that she knew what the artifact really is, and she would have it.
    According to who, again? Narud is the one indicating why the Queen of Blades wants the data. I have "reasons" to believe he is hiding the real truth about everything on those data cores.

    Narud: "I need you to destroy those cores before the Queen of Blades finds them and discovers the coordinates of the remaining artifacts! The fate of the entire Sector could hang in the balance!"
    Then there's this quote. They are two statements. The first sentence is about who Narud really is. The second and third are about the artifacts.

    Kerrigan: "I've seen through your 'Doctor Narud's' pathetic charade. I know what the artifacts really are! And they will be mine!"
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    You mean on Ulnar? He would have done that either way regardless of Kerrigan was deinfested at the end of WoL or not.
    I think you are confused. Let me explain.

    Ulnar's Ascension Temple was the first Xel'naga temple Amon explicitly destroyed (during LotV). However, Amon also destroyed the Temple on Atrias during the prologue. I would like to believe that he also wanted to destroy the temple on Ulaan (which contained the original 3 bits of prophesy), but this is the one the Queen of Blades probably saved. This is why I think her forces controlled the temple before Zeratul got there.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    During WoL and HotS, Amon used Tal'darim as the Protoss ingredient for the Hybrids.
    Were they? There's no indication of the loyalties of the Protoss prisoners in the first two games, but in Whispers of Oblivion, they're explicitly Khalai. If the Tal'darim were looking forward to 'ascending' though, they would not need to be kept prisoners.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    This is why the Tal'darim joined Amon, they wanted to ascend. The Terrans were only used because Amon wanted no faction (including Terrans and Protoss) to have control over his production. He rotated from the Confederacy to the UED and then to the Domion. It is unclear if Mengsk really knew about the Hybrids at all.
    There were personal orders from Mengsk about the fate of the Castanar facility in Augustgrad. Mengsk was also the one who gave his soldiers to the Moebius Corps. I'm not sure how you could hide Castanar and Skygeirr from him, especially considering Skygeirr was the second most heavily defended location in Dominion space, after Korhal itself. I don't know that the UED was ever involved with the project.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    I do not see hostilities between Moebius Corps and Tal'Darim as a plot hole. In strategy, I would not like my foe to know that these two factions work together. As well, there are two sides to the Moebius group at that time: Mind controlled and regular Terran Scientists.
    Possible. Though you could have arranged the fight so that Moebius got what they came for before being chased out by the Tal'darim, thus advancing your goals.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  8. #18

    Default Re: Alarak StarCraft 2 BlizzCon poster

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    I guess we just won't ever understand his incompetence. He did try to kill Kerrigan when she showed up on Skygeirr and during Mengsk's attack on Valerian's outpost. An ideal character should have foreseen this; but like many others, Narud is just a petty antagonist.
    Arrogance comes before the fall. This was exactly Narud's problem in the end.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar View Post
    There were personal orders from Mengsk about the fate of the Castanar facility in Augustgrad. Mengsk was also the one who gave his soldiers to the Moebius Corps. I'm not sure how you could hide Castanar and Skygeirr from him, especially considering Skygeirr was the second most heavily defended location in Dominion space, after Korhal itself. I don't know that the UED was ever involved with the project.
    The UED wouldn't be involved at all there. You're not supposed to be able to hide Castanar and Skygeirr from the guy, just enough to hide the truth from him and that's enough

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